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Old 12-20-2006, 03:08 PM   #16
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TWO words. Wayne Gretzky. Thread closed.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voratian
Maradona isn't as close to Pele as people think.


Pele was a much better player than Maradona.
Pele scored 1281 goals in 1375 games.
He won 83% the games he played , and remember that there are ties in football (soccer).
Just to keep things in perspective. Pele won 3 world cups. The first one in 1958, he was 17 years old. Maradona at 19 years old was not even selected for the Argentina NT. And he only won 1 world cup, never won the European Championship. While Pele won 2 SA Championships.
The brazilian league at Pele's time was the best in the world. Every single player of the brazilian team in 3 world cups theY won played in Brazil.
And you can't even bring that "it was easier to score back then thing", since the second leading scorer in Brasil that time only scored about 450 goals, Pepe was his name BTW. Some games Santos (Pele's team) played in Europe:
Barcelona 1 x 5 (3 Pele goals) Internazionale 1 x 7 (5 goals from Pele).
Pele is just as big as Jordan. IMO he is definetly more famous than Jordan worldwide. In Africa, they stop a freaking war to let Pele play a friendly there. Heck, Brazil is a country, became much more famous because of Pele.

He is just the King of football Pele!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KFgkzOSBA2s

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Old 12-20-2006, 03:10 PM   #18
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What dejordan said.

Hockey IMO is the only major American Sport where there's a single player who stands out so much. Basketball, isn't, since you have a player who won almost twice as many titles (most of them as the Finals' MVP), another who broke many more records and a third one who dominated in every level as much as anyone (as a combination) and is the all-time leading scorer. This makes the basketball battle closer than most polls indicate.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:11 PM   #19
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lol ya wayne absolutely dominated
1007 points more than the next closest player (howe), even though howe played 280 more games.
and he has almost 100 more playoff points than the next closest player(messier), even though messier played like 30 more playoff games
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JalenRawley
Bobby Hull.

Bobby WHO?!!?

You just proved my point exactly. Wayne Gretzky = GOAT
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:14 PM   #21
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I think Pele is just another level higher than Maradona, I mean the man was just immensely talented. Maradona also is a bad ambassador for the sport, in sharp contrast to Pele.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSub
Bobby WHO?!!?

You just proved my point exactly. Wayne Gretzky = GOAT
Bobby Ore>>Bobby Hull

Gretzsky>>>>Anyone else

Basic principles in hockey.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
Golf-Woods isnt deemed as best golfer ever by much if at all
Baseball- wide open
Football- wide open
Hockey- Gretzky Maybe but again not wide open
Soccer- Pele and Maradonna are neck and neck
Tennis- Federer hasnt overtaken Sampras yet, equal atm
100m- No clear cut
Heavyweight - Ali,Lewis, Marciano, foreman, no clear cut (dont get confused with Alis CHARISMA AND LOOKS)
and we get to Basketball

Nearly everyone, apart from those who just want to be different or rebellious see Michael Jordan as the greatest and way ahead of whoever maybe be ranked at number 2, anyone think of a sport where there is such a clear best ever? i.e the popular phrase "The Michael Jordan of..."

The problem with this comparison is that they really depend on position. Is the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball better or worse than the greatest hitter in the history of baseball? In football, is the greatest quarterback better than the greatest receiver, or running back? Etc.

If you were to narrow things down to one person, every sport has their greatest ever, and there are millions of arguments over it. You can make the argument that Wilt Chamberlain was a greater basketball player than Jordan basing it on the numbers he put up and the things he was able to do, just like you can make the argument that Bill Russell or Bob Cousy was a greater basketball player based on the number of championships they won. It's why this type of argument is immature and schoolyard at best, everyone has different criteria, and everyone has a different answer.

Golf: Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus
Baseball: Babe Ruth, Nolan Ryan (HUNDREDS to choose from here)
Football- Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, (again, HUNDREDS to choose from)
Hockey: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Hull, etc
Soccer: Pele, Maradonna, Zidane, etc (don't know much about soccer aka futbal)
Tennis: Sampras, Agassi, McEnroe, Federer, etc

Etc, and an argument could be made for women tennis players being in the greatest of all time list too.

When Michael came into the league, he was the next Julius Erving. Just because you never saw Dr. J. doesn't diminish what he did. Same for everyone else above. Is MJ the greatest of all time? In my opinion, yes, so far. But you never know who's going to come up. Kobe's got plenty of years left in him, LeBron too, Carmelo.. and what about 40 years from now, when MJ is no more memorable than Bob Pettit or Herb Galatin?

Awful topic.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voratian
I think Pele is just another level higher than Maradona, I mean the man was just immensely talented. Maradona also is a bad ambassador for the sport, in sharp contrast to Pele.

I really don't take that off fied thing in comparing the two of them.
Pele is a football player was better than Maradona. He could do it all, pass, shoot with the right and left leg, headers, bycicle kicks, free kicks , everything you would want from a player.
Maradona was a genius. Perhaps the second best ever , Garrincha Cruyff, Best and others fight with him for that second place. But he was not as complete as Pele, he could not score with his right foot and could not score with his head. And his prime lasted few years, his drugs problems affected him early, while Pele dominated for at least 12 years (1958-1970).
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
Baseball- wide open
Football- wide open
Hockey- Gretzky Maybe but again not wide open
you just lost to your own argument
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:33 PM   #26
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all you people getting on him about Gretzky being the undeniable GOAT are DEAD WRONG. Y'all must be Americans, or just stupid hockey fans. Mario Lemiuex has a strong case as the GOAT and if his career was not ended short due to injuries he may have surpassed Gretzky.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:53 PM   #27
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well we're jus going by wut happened, not wut coulda happened. most nhl fans understand how great mario was when he played. hell his career ppg during regular season was 1.91, and gretzky's was 1.92. without a doubt if he got a chance to play a full healthy career, we coulda seen someone 'possibly' challenge wayne.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:05 PM   #28
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I was wondering when Mario was going to get some love. He and Gretzky were the only reason I ever watched any hockey games. I can't say that for any other player in any other sport I don't normally watch.

Even though Mario is my fav hockey player of all time, Gretzky IS undeniably the greatest ever, IMO.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:06 PM   #29
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Mario "could" have been the GOAT, but we will never know for sure since so much of his prime was stolen by injuries and poor health. Just like Orr could been the GOAT if could played for more than have dozen season with a healthy body.

There are/were players with better all round games, more natural talent, and the potential to have been greater...maybe, but no one ever came close in term of objective mesurables.

When someone else gets 92 goals and 120 assists, or 2857 carrer points plus these records http://www.waynegretzky.com/statistics_records.aspx, they can make an arugment for GOAT.

oh, and throw these on his resume http://www.waynegretzky.com/statistics_trophy.aspx
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:14 PM   #30
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I consider MJ to to be GOAT 1a and Magic GOAT 1b, and maintain that if I were to start a team it would be with Magic. So no it isn't that big a margin if at all.
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