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Old 12-20-2006, 04:26 PM   #31
joewait
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the reason is the NBA is built on perception, not reality, a lot of the time. I think Kobe's already as good as MJ but the casual fan has been brainwashed into thinking no one can ever be remotely ever as good as Jordan.
Plus it's not like tennis for example where achievements are easily quantified.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _KP_The_Familia_
all you people getting on him about Gretzky being the undeniable GOAT are DEAD WRONG. Y'all must be Americans, or just stupid hockey fans. Mario Lemiuex has a strong case as the GOAT and if his career was not ended short due to injuries he may have surpassed Gretzky.
Finally some recognition of Super Mario. He's considered by many as the GOAT, and very well could have broken Gretzky's records if it wasn't for the bad back, the cancer, the hips. There is no sport where there is one guy that is way ahead of anyone in my opinion.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:30 PM   #33
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GOAT = greatest of all time, not the greatest career of all time or the greatest statistics of all time

Mario Lemieux may very well be the greatest hockey player of all time..it is arguable but it is wrong to say that Gretzky is UNDENIABLY the greatest to ever play the game

It's like people that say Tupac or Jay-Z is better than Biggie because they had more albums, but even though Biggie only dropped two albums; they were both classic and I consider him the GOAT.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:32 PM   #34
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who's everyone's favorite physicist?
Bohr is mine, but I admit Einstein is the GOAT of the modern physicists
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:50 PM   #35
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Then would you please name for me a player on par or near par with Gretzky?

Mario Lemieux, you're welcome.
Mario had a better point per game over his career, the only reason he isn't close to Wayne's record was because of his illness. I will always consider Magic & Mario to be the greatest players of their sport...and to me Ali is the one man that dominanted his sport more then any other athlete...and Pele is the clear favorite in soccer, Maradona was nice...but I never considered putting him on the level of the great Pele until I read someone mention that in here.

And Tiger Woods is NOT the greatest golfer to ever play, Jack is still #1 until Tiger catches up to him.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:02 PM   #36
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Kareem is a 20 time all star, 6 time champ, 6 time MVP, 11 time all D team member, second in blocks all time, was a 15 time all nba teamer(would have been 18 time first teamer if centers had 2 spots like guards and forwards), went to 10 finals, is the all time leading scorer, was a 35/17/5 player in his prime, led the L in blocks 4 times, holds the all time record for defensive rebounds in a season, was on 10 60+ win teams(18 50+ win seasons) and is maybe the most unstoppable and consistient offensive player in sports history.

Jesus couldnt have a career that would make him far ahead of Kareem. The idea that anyone is miles ahead of Kareem is crazy. Kareem is the most accomplished, arguably the most dominant individual since Wilt, won more than anyone who wasnt a 60s celtic, and had every single skill in the book for bigmen. One of the best passers, post scorers, rebounders, defenders, and winners in history of his position.

You couldnt write fiction about a player having a way better career than him or being a way better player even independant of accomplishments. Kareem can stand with anyone in american sports history and not be blown away. Not Babe Ruth. Not Ali. Not Jordan. Nobody is far ahead of Kareem. If anyone is ahead of him at all.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
Pele was a much better player than Maradona.
Yeah, but did Pele play games while drugged up on Coke?
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:05 PM   #38
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Gretzky, in his prime, was the most dominant player ever in any team-sport.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert48
Yeah, but did Pele play games while drugged up on Coke?


And, who's to blame there? That was all Maradona fault. Nobody made him drug himself.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:27 PM   #40
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Jordan isn't even the greatest of all time. Steve Nash is.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
Mario Lemieux, you're welcome.
Mario had a better point per game over his career, the only reason he isn't close to Wayne's record was because of his illness. I will always consider Magic & Mario to be the greatest players of their sport...and to me Ali is the one man that dominanted his sport more then any other athlete...and Pele is the clear favorite in soccer, Maradona was nice...but I never considered putting him on the level of the great Pele until I read someone mention that in here.

And Tiger Woods is NOT the greatest golfer to ever play, Jack is still #1 until Tiger catches up to him.

How can you argue that Mario is better since he did more in shorter period of time, regardless of Gretzsky's carreer acomplisments; then argue that Jack is better than Tiger due to his total carreer acomplishment, despite that fact Tiger has been more dominate and accomplished more in shorter period of time?

You can't have it both ways
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHonestTruth
Jordan isn't even the greatest of all time. Steve Nash is.



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Old 12-20-2006, 05:36 PM   #43
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Um, Lance Armstrong anybody. 7 straight!

In football, there's too much gray matter. Rice could be, but he was more efficient than anybody I ever saw. Not as flashy as the Mosses, Michael Irvins, Chad Johnsons, or big play spectacular like Steve Smith, but you couldn't stop him. You knew where the ball was going on any down, and he'd still get it. Jim Brown was dominant but doesn't hold any statistical edge. Walter Payton? When it's all said and done, if Manning can win two rings, I think the league will have it's face.

Ali. Please don't mention glass jaw Lewis Mr Clinch and jab.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
And, who's to blame there? That was all Maradona fault. Nobody made him drug himself.
Exactly. To be that good while coked up? Amazing.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _KP_The_Familia_
all you people getting on him about Gretzky being the undeniable GOAT are DEAD WRONG. Y'all must be Americans, or just stupid hockey fans. Mario Lemiuex has a strong case as the GOAT and if his career was not ended short due to injuries he may have surpassed Gretzky.

Damn, you beat me to it. Exactly my sentiments as I was reading the first page of this thread. Kudos to you. To me, Lemieux is at least equal to Gretzky in terms of greatness just because of the obstacles he had to face.
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