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Old 06-14-2011, 08:39 AM   #16
Teanett
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by get these NETS
dirk elevated his play this season....but there have been players with similar skills,


no.
there was only one other player who could go 97% foul shots in the playoffs and go into unstoppable mode in every 4th quarter, and he's considered top 5 all-time.
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Old 06-14-2011, 08:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Easily Dirk.

People forget that Kidd has always been a horrible shooter.

Look at his PER. He had 2 regular seasons with a PER of 22. ALL his other seasons were below 20. In the playoffs, it's the same picture.

If you look at Dirk's numbers, his top PER seasons were at 28. Besides his first two seasons, he never was below 20. His AVERAGE is 23.7 for regular seasons and 24.7 for playoffs.

It should be pretty obvious that Dirks's a clear step above Kidd.
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Jason Kidd was a better peak player..

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Old 06-14-2011, 11:14 AM   #19
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teanett
no.
there was only one other player who could go 97% foul shots in the playoffs and go into unstoppable mode in every 4th quarter, and he's considered top 5 all-time.
the guy you're talking about did it multiple times...if you're talking about LB


there have been others who have had great FT % and beastly fourth quarters in the nba finals

chauncey billups....joe dumars, tony parker, ray allen


come on, man

dirk played out of his mind this playoffs.....but Kidd is the more unique and rare player
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by get these NETS
the guy you're talking about did it multiple times...if you're talking about LB


there have been others who have had great FT % and beastly fourth quarters in the nba finals

chauncey billups....joe dumars, tony parker, ray allen


come on, man

dirk played out of his mind this playoffs.....but Kidd is the more unique and rare player

Does the stupidity rise to new levels in the world. I do not care if you call Dirk or Kidd better - even though in my mind Dirk is clearly better but I can accept people discussing it as a real worthwhile topic.

But to call the one player who everyone in the whole damn league has called the most unique and position redefining player in the last decade not a more unique and rare player than Kidd than this is beyond stupid! Even when Dirk was blasted for being unclutch and a failure as a team leader in the past virtually NO ONE ever doubted that he is one of the most unique player types in the whole league...in fact this was the reason for the critiism in the first place...that he has such a unique skillset that you cannot build a team around him.

I swear some people (kids?) cannot think logically and be honest and objective if their lives dependent on it.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

2 of my favorite players.

But Kidd gets the head nod for me because he is from my stomping grounds and I saw him murder my high school team when he played for St Joesph's. Man am I feeling old now.

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Old 06-14-2011, 12:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by get these NETS
the guy you're talking about did it multiple times...if you're talking about LB


there have been others who have had great FT % and beastly fourth quarters in the nba finals

chauncey billups....joe dumars, tony parker, ray allen


come on, man

dirk played out of his mind this playoffs.....but Kidd is the more unique and rare player

Name me other 7 footers with Dirk's game.

I can give you players with reasonably close games to Kidd:

Michael Ray Richardson
Fat Lever

among others. Not as good of course, but fits the mold of big all around PG.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

does this board always try to vote for the underdawgs to sound cool/smart?
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hookul
Does the stupidity rise to new levels in the world. I do not care if you call Dirk or Kidd better - even though in my mind Dirk is clearly better but I can accept people discussing it as a real worthwhile topic.

But to call the one player who everyone in the whole damn league has called the most unique and position redefining player in the last decade not a more unique and rare player than Kidd than this is beyond stupid! Even when Dirk was blasted for being unclutch and a failure as a team leader in the past virtually NO ONE ever doubted that he is one of the most unique player types in the whole league...in fact this was the reason for the critiism in the first place...that he has such a unique skillset that you cannot build a team around him.

I swear some people (kids?) cannot think logically and be honest and objective if their lives dependent on it.

Dirk is a 7 foot small forward with unlimited range and and assortment of space clearing moves


his skillset is that of several players who have played in the league....being 7 feet tall with those skills is the rarity

Dirk is what keith van horn was supposed to be...



jason kidd is legitimately in magic johnson's class in terms of passing and management of an offense....in fast break and half court game his vision is all time elite.... AND he has legit all time nba defensive credentials..having at age 38..guarded 3 members of the first team all nba this season....kobe,durant and lebron....effectively

(wade murdered him...but you can't win everything)

it's like magic and michael cooper in the same person....


i'll give you a chance to retract the michael ray richardson and fat lever comparisons
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by get these NETS
Dirk is a 7 foot small forward with unlimited range and and assortment of space clearing moves


his skillset is that of several players who have played in the league....being 7 feet tall with those skills is the rarity

Dirk is what keith van horn was supposed to be...



jason kidd is legitimately in magic johnson's class in terms of passing and management of an offense....in fast break and half court game his vision is all time elite.... AND he has legit all time nba defensive credentials..having at age 38..guarded 3 members of the first team all nba this season....kobe,durant and lebron....effectively

(wade murdered him...but you can't win everything)

it's like magic and michael cooper in the same person....


i'll give you a chance to retract the michael ray richardson and fat lever comparisons


you might want to check your reply cause I am not the one who brought up fat lever, etc.

to the point, not even going to discuss further if you start with keith van horn comparisons with dirk, i might as well bring up every 2nd class pg then whose playstyle was similiar to kidd but just skillswise 2 tiers below him. stupid comparison and point ot make.

If you cannot see and acknowledge that - regardless of whose player one thinks is better - Dirk is one of the most UNIQUE players this league has seen in the last 20 years. Something that everyone in the league (please google around a bit for gm or players quotes over the past decade) has been saying for years, then you are a lost cause. Dirk practically redefined a position for heavens sake!

There is a reason why the rare, rare cases that now came up in the last years in the drafts are called potentially the next Dirk. This is because he has such a unique skillset and physique that he defined as the first ever a playertype that others are judged by (e.g. bastnani being the next Dirk etc.). BTW, Dirk is clearly a PF and has played as a PF for all years except the short stints as CENTER!

You never hear anyone say: Oh, this guy might be the next Kidd - why is that? Because he is FROM HIS SKILLSET a normal, old school pass first PG. He one of the best ever for his position but does not possess a unique skillset for his position.


you are using "rare and unique" in terms of how good a player is with how rare and unique his skillset is. Your only argument for Kidd being unique is because he is so good at what he does...not because what he does in general. And of course, when you are using it this definition then you are just flatout insulting Dirk by not applying the same definition to him. You say van Horn is essentially that Dirk is for "uniqueness"? Yeah right, if he would have been twice the player he actually was...I might as say then that Andre Miller is the player Kidd is (or pluck in 20% of the current PG in the league).

Last edited by hookul : 06-14-2011 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
does this board always try to vote for the underdawgs to sound cool/smart?

No, just the usual disrespecting of Dirk as usual. Incredible really...even after this whole playoff run (people have seem to forgotten the LA and OKC series already), we still have poster proclaiming Kidd to be clearly better than Dirk.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hookul
you might want to check your reply cause I am not the one who brought up fat lever, etc.

to the point, not even going to discuss further if you start with keith van horn comparisons with dirk, i might as well bring up every 2nd class pg then whose playstyle was similiar to kidd but just skillswise 2 tiers below him. stupid comparison and point ot make.

If you cannot see and acknowledge that - regardless of whose player one thinks is better - Dirk is one of the most UNIQUE players this league has seen in the last 20 years. Something that everyone in the league (please google around a bit for gm or players quotes over the past decade) has been saying for years, then you are a lost cause. Dirk practically redefined a position for heavens sake!

There is a reason why the rare, rare cases that now came up in the last years in the drafts are called potentially the next Dirk. This is because he has such a unique skillset and physique that he defined as the first ever a playertype that others are judged by (e.g. bastnani being the next Dirk etc.). BTW, Dirk is clearly a PF and has played as a PF for all years except the short stints as CENTER!

You never hear anyone say: Oh, this guy might be the next Kidd - why is that? Because he is FROM HIS SKILLSET a normal, old school pass first PG. He one of the best ever for his position but does not possess a unique skillset for his position.


you seem to be reluctant to acknowledge that kidd is bringing to the table...magic johnson level vision and passing...along with micheal cooper level defensive intensity and basketball iq



at both ends of the court, he is an alltime great....legitimately..


defended 3/5 of all nba first team in the playoffs.....effectively at age 38

made his weakness his strength and became an effective clutch outside shooter


i brought up van horn because there have been 6'10" guys in the league who had games similar to Dirk...Dirk became the player that Van Horn was supposed to become


most of the euro players come to the league regardless of height have small forward games....outside shooting, passing, driving....and an aversion to playing defense and getting boards


think toni kukoc, hedo, sabonis, all in 7 foot range.
late in his career..sam perkins was a deadly outside shooter...rasheed wallace was a big with multifaceted game including outside shooting


Dirk is a great player....not taking anything away from him...but if you read what I say objectively....you'll see that Kidd is a more unique player...
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

i dont even know why it matters whose the more unique player. we're discussing whose better, not more unique. even if kidd was more unique and i'd disagree, its really irrelevant.

dirk is better and its not that close to be honest. kidd isnt a great offensive pg in the halfcourt and its why his teams have been in the bottom half of the league in efficiency.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
does this board always try to vote for the underdawgs to sound cool/smart?

They are both HOF players who have had incredible careers. Not only that, but JKidd has been playing longer than Dirk. That has to mean something.



That being said, prime Kidd could have been a better player than Dirk. Definitely not within the last 5-6 years though. Dirk and Kidd don't even belong in the same sentence now. That's with or without a ring.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hookul
No, just the usual disrespecting of Dirk as usual. Incredible really...even after this whole playoff run (people have seem to forgotten the LA and OKC series already), we still have poster proclaiming Kidd to be clearly better than Dirk.


Larry Bird was my favorite player growing up.....and as great and clutch as he was... there was a tendency for people to (naturally) identify with him because of race....and forget about the other great players in the league and harp on Bird.


When the Nets lost to the Spurs in Finals....Kidd was a free agent that summer and the Spurs wanted him BADLY....

they won rings without Kidd.....but what kind of a run do you think they would have had with Kidd (rather than Parker)


Kobe had a public rant years ago when the Lakers nixed a kidd/bynum trade ..


kidd was maybe 33-34 at the time

team usa....without kidd....they lose...with kidd they win....look it up..
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