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Old 06-14-2011, 01:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by get these NETS
Larry Bird was my favorite player growing up.....and as great and clutch as he was... there was a tendency for people to (naturally) identify with him because of race....and forget about the other great players in the league and harp on Bird.


When the Nets lost to the Spurs in Finals....Kidd was a free agent that summer and the Spurs wanted him BADLY....

they won rings without Kidd.....but what kind of a run do you think they would have had with Kidd (rather than Parker)


Kobe had a public rant years ago when the Lakers nixed a kidd/bynum trade ..


kidd was maybe 33-34 at the time

team usa....without kidd....they lose...with kidd they win....look it up..

again . You are changing arguments and are seriously discussing the value of each player to their teams? Team USA without Kidd? How about team Germany without Dirk...or better team DALLAS without Dirk...care to look at how his team perform then? What are you even argueing?

I started with you calling Kidd more rare and unique player than Dirk...I do not give a shit about the dumb stuff you wrote above. Here, just for you, two very recent commentaries I did not even look for but happen to be on the frontpage of real gm .com :
Quote:
One of the most unique players iOne of the most unique players in the history of the NBA, he is a paradigm-shifting player who used his height not to bully people at the rim but to release an un-contestable jumper.

A seven-foot shooting platform, NBA scouts spent a fruitless decade overseas trying to find players -- from Darko to Andrea Bargnani and Yi Jianlian -- who could replicate his game. Yao, a 7’5 shooting platform modeled on Dirk, is already practically out of the NBA, but Kevin Durant, a 6’10 shooting platform, looks poised to turn the Thunder into the Mavericks of this decade

and from http://getbuckets.fantake.com/2011/0...s-black-swans/
Quote:
So are there any “black swans” in basketball?

Are there any historically unique players who impact games in new and different ways than the players before ....

You are just a kid argueing for argueing sake for Kidd. I am done with this thread.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by hookul
you might want to check your reply cause I am not the one who brought up fat lever, etc.

to the point, not even going to discuss further if you start with keith van horn comparisons with dirk, i might as well bring up every 2nd class pg then whose playstyle was similiar to kidd but just skillswise 2 tiers below him. stupid comparison and point ot make.

If you cannot see and acknowledge that - regardless of whose player one thinks is better - Dirk is one of the most UNIQUE players this league has seen in the last 20 years. Something that everyone in the league (please google around a bit for gm or players quotes over the past decade) has been saying for years, then you are a lost cause. Dirk practically redefined a position for heavens sake!

There is a reason why the rare, rare cases that now came up in the last years in the drafts are called potentially the next Dirk. This is because he has such a unique skillset and physique that he defined as the first ever a playertype that others are judged by (e.g. bastnani being the next Dirk etc.). BTW, Dirk is clearly a PF and has played as a PF for all years except the short stints as CENTER!

You never hear anyone say: Oh, this guy might be the next Kidd - why is that? Because he is FROM HIS SKILLSET a normal, old school pass first PG. He one of the best ever for his position but does not possess a unique skillset for his position.


you are using "rare and unique" in terms of how good a player is with how rare and unique his skillset is. Your only argument for Kidd being unique is because he is so good at what he does...not because what he does in general. And of course, when you are using it this definition then you are just flatout insulting Dirk by not applying the same definition to him. You say van Horn is essentially that Dirk is for "uniqueness"? Yeah right, if he would have been twice the player he actually was...I might as say then that Andre Miller is the player Kidd is (or pluck in 20% of the current PG in the league).



Kidd has the better skillset. Your PF doesn't need to be able to shoot in order to have a good team, but your PG better be able to distribute the ball, run on the break, run the offense, put defensive pressure on the ball, and score. Kidd could also rebound in his prime...
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by get these NETS
there have been others who have had great FT % and beastly fourth quarters in the nba finals

chauncey billups....joe dumars, tony parker, ray allen


are you nuts? didn't you follow what just happened?

we're not talking about A fourth quarter in the finals, were talking about EVERY fourth quarter in the whole play-offs.

we're not talking great FT%, we're talking the best FT%.

we're not talking about reggie miller. we're talking about a guy who already outscored the other white, tall clutch shooter at age 32.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:11 PM   #34
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by Teanett
are you nuts? didn't you follow what just happened?

we're not talking about A fourth quarter in the finals, were talking about EVERY fourth quarter in the whole play-offs.

we're not talking great FT%, we're talking the best FT%.

we're not talking about reggie miller. we're talking about a guy who already outscored the other white, tall clutch shooter at age 32.
never in your life compare dirk to Bird


Bird showed up in the playoffs ALL the time....every game, every series..

Dirk had an amazing playoff run ....run....singular



if you're talking about dirk outscoring bird in playoffs....simply more rounds and games then when Bird played....

if you're talking about reg. season..it's impressive...Bird's career was cut short by a bad back
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by get these NETS
never in your life compare dirk to Bird


Bird showed up in the playoffs ALL the time....every game, every series..

Dirk had an amazing playoff run ....run....singular



if you're talking about dirk outscoring bird in playoffs....simply more rounds and games then when Bird played....

if you're talking about reg. season..it's impressive...Bird's career was cut short by a bad back

Here you go:
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
How is that, Kidd's first All-Star team was in '96, his most recent was last season ... Seems like he has maintained his dominance for a while.


are you really going to give Kidd credit for making an AllStar team b/c dudes were hurt and a freak blizzard shut down the Dallas airport making it impossible for any other players to make it down?
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Yeah but the thing about Dirk is that he makes every single shot or he misses every shot even wide open. When Dirk is cold he is a huge liability for his team. In my opinion Dirk choked in the final game and was lucky they were playing someone not making 100% effort.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by HorryIsMyMVP
Yeah but the thing about Dirk is that he makes every single shot or he misses every shot even wide open. When Dirk is cold he is a huge liability for his team. In my opinion Dirk choked in the final game and was lucky they were playing someone not making 100% effort.



if you think Dirk is a streak shooter you need to get off this message board and go watch some games
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by kentatm


if you think Dirk is a streak shooter you need to get off this message board and go watch some games
He just chokes under the pressure every time. He did this year as well but it didn't matter. Larry Bird plays better under pressure.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by kentatm


if you think Dirk is a streak shooter you need to get off this message board and go watch some games

Dirk from three alone is 2% lower than Kidd career FG%

HorryIsMyMVP doesnt know what the fuck he's saying
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:48 PM   #41
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
Dirk from three alone is 2% lower than Kidd career FG%

HorryIsMyMVP doesnt know what the fuck he's saying
If you shoot 16/18 and then 5/18 in the next game. You are still shooting 58% overall but you just lost your team a game.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HorryIsMyMVP
If you shoot 16/18 and then 5/18 in the next game. You are still shooting 58% overall but you just lost your team a game.

Its the playoffs. Guys are going to miss shots you know.

Dirk overall shot 48% in the playoffs which is pretty damn impressive for a man thats mainly a shooter.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Kidd had a great peak. Kidd did pretty much everything pretty well except shooting, as well as his %s.
Dirk was on a high level for a long time, and he is unique and unguardable.
I pick Dirk, because he kept the Mavs Franchise above 50 wins for how long? 10 straight seasons?

Both are great players, you could make the case for both.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:58 PM   #44
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

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Originally Posted by HorryIsMyMVP
He just chokes under the pressure every time. He did this year as well but it didn't matter. Larry Bird plays better under pressure.




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Old 06-14-2011, 04:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: JASON KIDD -vs- DIRK NOWITZKI: Who U Got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
Its the playoffs. Guys are going to miss shots you know.

Dirk overall shot 48% in the playoffs which is pretty damn impressive for a man thats mainly a shooter.
I know Dirk is a good shooter overall but he has random games of can't hit anything. Which costs them games. And in that last game he tried.
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