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Old 06-20-2011, 10:39 AM   #76
SpanishACB
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
Doesn't matter where from, Ibaka isn't Spanish and shouldn't play for Spain.

He is Spanish. According to the law. Or he will be, shortly, after obtaining double nationality via a work permit for being employed for so many years in a particular country.

I was asking, because he seemed so against nationalization, which is such a phenom in the states, that I'm curious of his opinion if he's actually american.
I mean, doesn't the USA national team of soccer field players from Colombia and Ghana? It does.

edit:
But I was merely wondering, I haven't stated my views on it. I also respect your opinion, it saddens me, but I understand, being vasco and all, you rather we all stayed were we came from, lol.

Last edited by SpanishACB : 06-20-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:42 AM   #77
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishACB
He is Spanish. According to the law. Or he will be, shortly, after obtaining double nationality via a work permit for being employed for so many years in a particular country.

I was asking, because he seemed so against nationalization, which is such a phenom in the states, that I'm curious of his opinion if he's actually american.
I mean, doesn't the USA national team of soccer field players from Colombia and Ghana?


It does.
The law stating he's Spanish doesn't make it ok for me.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:43 AM   #78
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

It doesn't matter if it's ok for you or not, I was merely correcting your statement. You said it didn't make him Spanish, correction, it does, your personal views on international law and such are a something else, which I don't think anyone gives a toss about.

Next time you want to present something as an opinon make sure you don't make it sound like a fact, specially considering it was a wrong fact, and there's the risk of you looking like an idiot.

Last edited by SpanishACB : 06-20-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:50 AM   #79
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Juan Agudelo and Freddy Adu are the only US soccer players for the NT that are born outside the US and both of them came to the US when they were 8.

Then there's the opposite case in Giuseppe Rossi who plays for Italy despite living in New Jersey for most of his life.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:51 AM   #80
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

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Originally Posted by Grinder
He has and can play the 4, it's not ideal, but he can do it. He's 6'8" and fairly strong. Anyway, he won't be seeing minutes there with Pau and Reyes playing a lot of minutes.

I don't know if Pablo Aguilar will get consideration now.

I've watched nearly every single Real Madrid game this year, both in Euroleague and ACB, and I watched Suárez play for Estudiantes a good number of times in the past. It' not uncommon to see him go inside while the team's PF spreads the floor, but that doesn't make him a PF. I don't remember him playing PF this year -with some exception like one Euroleague game in which all Madrid centers were in foul trouble and they had to put Mirotic at center for some minutes-, and he played SF for Estudiantes 90% of the time.

Of course he can play the 4 if there's no choice. But it takes more than height and strength to effectively play the position. It takes 'being a PF'. Spain -and Real Madrid- would use up any option before resorting to him.

Aguilar is simply not good enough. That's my opinion, at least. He'd certainly get no minutes, so it doesn't matter. Still, if he was the option at the 4, I'd rather try SF like Claver and -yes, I know, I'm contradictory now - even Suárez.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:52 AM   #81
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
Juan Agudelo and Freddy Adu are the only US soccer players for the NT that are born outside the US and both of them came to the US when they were 8.

Then there's the opposite case in Giuseppe Rossi who plays for Italy despite living in New Jersey for most of his life.

But Rossi's got at least an Italian father (assumption). Isn't heritage as important as place of birth when it comes to these things?
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:55 AM   #82
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishACB
It doesn't matter if it's ok for you or not, I was merely correcting your statement. You said it didn't make him Spanish, correction, it does, your personal views on international law and such are a something else, which I don't think anyone gives a toss about.

Next time you want to present something as an opinon make sure you don't make it sound like a fact, specially considering it was a wrong fact, and there's the risk of you looking like an idiot.
Why so angry?
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:56 AM   #83
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishACB
He is Spanish. According to the law. Or he will be, shortly, after obtaining double nationality via a work permit for being employed for so many years in a particular country.

I was asking, because he seemed so against nationalization, which is such a phenom in the states, that I'm curious of his opinion if he's actually american.
I mean, doesn't the USA national team of soccer field players from Colombia and Ghana? It does.

edit:
But I was merely wondering, I haven't stated my views on it. I also respect your opinion, it saddens me, but I understand, being vasco and all, you rather we all stayed were we came from, lol.
Nope, we have two foreign born players and both of them came as children. Nice made up fact though. Arguments are always more valid when supported by made up facts.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:56 AM   #84
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
He has and can play the 4, it's not ideal, but he can do it. He's 6'8" and fairly strong. Anyway, he won't be seeing minutes there with Pau and Reyes playing a lot of minutes.

I don't know if Pablo Aguilar will get consideration now.
Pablo Aguilar has been all kinds of inconsistent this season and really doesn't deserve to be in the NT at all, and this coming from a CAI season ticketholder. He's in love with his three pointer and camps in the perimeter all day, not exactly what is asked from a PF in the Spanish NT. The guy frustrates the hell out of me, because he's very talented and athletic as hell. he could be a great PF if he ever put his mind to it, but he'd rather play like a guard. I'd much rather have Mirotic, that guy is a phenomenal player and I do think he could contribute. Plus it'd be great for his development as a player.

Last edited by Lebowsky : 06-20-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:02 AM   #85
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catastrophique
I've watched nearly every single Real Madrid game this year, both in Euroleague and ACB, and I watched Suárez play for Estudiantes a good number of times in the past. It' not uncommon to see him go inside while the team's PF spreads the floor, but that doesn't make him a PF. I don't remember him playing PF this year -with some exception like one Euroleague game in which all Madrid centers were in foul trouble and they had to put Mirotic at center for some minutes-, and he played SF for Estudiantes 90% of the time.

Of course he can play the 4 if there's no choice. But it takes more than height and strength to effectively play the position. It takes 'being a PF'. Spain -and Real Madrid- would use up any option before resorting to him.

Aguilar is simply not good enough. That's my opinion, at least. He'd certainly get no minutes, so it doesn't matter. Still, if he was the option at the 4, I'd rather try SF like Claver and -yes, I know, I'm contradictory now - even Suárez.

Yeah, I wouldn't want him playing the 4 against guys like Diaw and Traore, but he could defend guys like Ilyasova and Savanovic, no doubt.


Do you think Sada will back up Calderon with Ricky as the third string?
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:03 AM   #86
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

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Originally Posted by SpanishACB
But Rossi's got at least an Italian father (assumption). Isn't heritage as important as place of birth when it comes to these things?

No, heritage doesn't mean anything to me if a guy is born somewhere else. I'd rather have a player play for us with two Korean parents and was born in the US than a guy from Spain that's lived there till he was 12 and has an American parent.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:06 AM   #87
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
Pablo Aguilar has been all kinds of inconsistent this season and really doesn't deserve to be in the NT at all, and this coming from a CAI season ticketholder. He's in love with his three pointer and camps in the perimeter all day, not exactly what is asked from a PF in the Spanish NT. The guy frustrates the hell out of me, because he's very talented and athletic as hell. he could be a great PF if he ever put his mind to it, but he'd rather play like a guard. I'd much rather have Mirotic, that guy is a phenomenal player and I do think he could contribute. Plus it'd be great for his development as a player.


Yeah, Aguilar isn't nearly as good as Mirotic...seems like his development came to a halt this year after he was being considered an NBA prospect last year.

Xavi Rey is another option as a back up big guy. Not very skilled, but has a lot of size and girth and 5 fouls to throw around.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:09 AM   #88
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Regarding Ibaka:

- He's not Spanish. Not yet, at least.
- If he gets naturalized, he'll be Spanish. Simple as that.
- Naturalized sportmen and women have become common in almost every sport. It is not new to basketball, neither. Let us remember Olajuwon or Tim Duncan.
- National teams can choose only ONE naturalized player for any given tournament. Right now it would be either Mirotic or... no naturalized player. That can change if Ibaka situation changes.
- I personally don't like this naturalization stuff. It feels like signingplayers. That's not the point of National Teams. Not in basketball, and not in any other sport.
- I understand, however, that not all cases are the same. With Mirotic, as I stated in a previous post, things are a bit different. He arrived there pretty young and Spain has been -and is- much more than a bus stop for him. I don't think it is a travestry the idea of him playing for Spain. With Ibaka I don't feel the same; it would be great for the actual competition, but it gets harder to identify with the team when you have players signed like that.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #89
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
No, heritage doesn't mean anything to me if a guy is born somewhere else. I'd rather have a player play for us with two Korean parents and was born in the US than a guy from Spain that's lived there till he was 12 and has an American parent.

I guess I'm not used to these forums, is it the usual to ask a question and get an opinion in return?

I read some on the subject either way, and yes, heritage has the same status as place of birth, to the point one can choose his primary nationality to be that of his parent/s or that of his place of birth.

Quote:
- I personally don't like this naturalization stuff. It feels like signingplayers. That's not the point of National Teams. Not in basketball, and not in any other sport

I agree wholeheartedly, however I don't condemn it for my country, mainly because any sport is a game, and games are to be played in equal conditions, and if other countries are abusing this (it's crazy in soccer, were some eastern European nations have close to 50% of nationalized players (mostly brazilians) I see no reason to not do it. Specially when the player has stated it's his desire, regardless of the fact he's just doing it for his sports career as opposed to doing it for "his nation".
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:14 AM   #90
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Default Re: FIBA EuroBasket 2011 Thread

I have no problem with naturalization. Lots of countries use it and when you've got a guy like Ibaka at your disposal, you've gotta use him.

Australia uses Aleks Maric
Greece uses Nick Calathes
Bulgaria uses Earl Rowland
Russia uses JR Holden and Kelly McCarthy
Lebanon uses Jackson Vroman
Japan uses JR Sakuragai
Macedonia uses Bo McCalebb
There's tons more examples...
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