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Old 07-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #181
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
What a dumb argument. Hickson had the best run of his career the last month and a half of last season and the Cavs were actually playing pretty well... Went from having by far the worst record in the NBA to clawing their way out of the cellar.

Hickson averaged 20/12 during that span.

How many times did you watch the Cavs play last year?

Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #182
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack


Kill yourself.

Well,its true.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:19 PM   #183
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Oh, don't get me wrong... He is still a complete block head who will fall asleep for long spans of games and he has maybe the worst set of hands I have ever seen in the NBA. I'm not sure if you are a Kings fan, but prepared for the JJ rollercoaster if you are.

He will have you thinking that he is an All-Star one game and a scrub in the next... Sometimes, his inconsistencies even crop up quarter to quarter or minute to minute.

The only really consistent thing about JJ are his awful hands, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But, when he has it going, he is very good. The key is trying to tap into that for more than a few stretches per game.


i actually said the same exxact thing regarding his weaknesses earlier in this thread i believe. i know i mentioned his butterfingers and inconsistent play, but he was a beast towards the end of last year where those inconsistencies were much fewer and far between.

all in all tho he's a borderline star, which some people are laughing at. altho i stand by it.

i'm a NBA fan, that follows my fantasy team more than homer'ing players...and i generally pull for underdogs. once they get good i tend to stop watching them, like OKC and Chicago...

Last edited by Godzuki : 07-01-2011 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:19 PM   #184
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Well,its true.
He's a Cavs fan, obviously still angry about it. But at least he has Casspi as a consolation prize.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:22 PM   #185
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Well,its true.
No, it's not.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:31 PM   #186
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Broussard:

Quote:
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big men.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas' $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.

Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James' re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.

The Suns would likely waive Ilgauskas, a move that would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.

Cleveland is also talking with Washington about acquiring Antawn Jamison, as well as Indiana about Troy Murphy. Meanwhile, Golden State is trying to entice the Cavs into taking Corey Maggette for Ilgauskas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305


Windhorst:

Quote:
Hey, Brian: Is it fair to say the Cavs would still be in the playoffs if they had pulled off the trade for Amar'e Stoudemire? He's been playing superb basketball for the entire second half and into the playoffs. At the time, I was glad to have picked up Antawn Jamison while keeping J.J. Hickson, but Jamison was never a factor in the playoffs and J.J. disappeared from Mike Brown's rotations. If J.J. wasn't going to play in the postseason, what was the point in holding on to him? -- Eric Cross, Sanford, Fla.

Hey, Eric: It is important to note that it wasn't a choice. The Suns elected not to trade Stoudemire for the package the Cavs offered, not the Cavs picking Jamison. In hindsight, it seems fans lose sight of that and believe the Cavs picked Jamison. The difference would have been the Cavs would have had a 27 year-old All-Star post player and not a 33-year-old stretch forward that is still good but past his prime. It would have been better in the short term and likely the long term. However, I disagree Jamison that was never a factor in the playoffs. He played well against the Bulls but was in a bad matchup with Kevin Garnett against the Celtics.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....t_answ_54.html

Quote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cavaliers have made their calls, now they're waiting for their phone to ring.

As the team headed into the eve of the NBA's trading deadline, sources indicated they had finalized and ranked their list of trade options. It includes input from the coaching staff, ownership and the team's veteran players, especially LeBron James.

Their first choice is believed to be to trade for the Phoenix Suns' Amare Stoudemire, a deal they have been working on in earnest since last week. Their offer is centered around Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson, but would likely include at least one more player and a draft pick.

Despite being prodded by the Cavs, however, the Suns seem willing to wait. League executives report that the extra time is for the Miami Heat to put together a more competitive package. The Heat, who have been courting Stoudemire for as long as the Cavs, are believed to be looking for a third team to help them pull it off.

The Cavs' deal, in conjunction with a potential money-saving buyout of Ilgauskas' contract, could put the Suns under the luxury tax. That is a move that could save Phoenix is excess of $10 million this season.

Miami's offers likely would not get the Suns under the tax but could include more draft picks -- the Heat own two first-rounders this year. There are signs that Miami is trying to find a way to also trade for Suns' guard Jason Richardson, who will make $14.4 million next season, as part of the deal.

If the Heat can do that, and therefore give the Suns the sort of cash savings the Cavs currently are offering, there's a good chance Phoenix may select Miami's offer.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....re_remain.html
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #187
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.

You said that Hickson put up numbers against teams who weren't trying because they were blowing out the Cavs. That is just flat-out untrue. Now, you have molded your argument into something different... That teams didn't care because it was the end of the season.

Just so we know, for future reference... Which games 'count' and which don't? Are the only games that counted for JJ last year the ones early in the season before the trade when the team was in total disarray? That seems more than a little unfair for a 22-year-old player and I was never the biggest proponent of JJ Hickson.

Just picking out a different random month during the course of the season, here are some numbers that he put up...

PHI (loss 95-91) - 22 points (9-15), 16 rebounds
NYK (win 115-109) - 24 points (9-17), 15 rebounds
LAC (win 126-119) - 27 points (12-19), 14 rebounds
DET (loss 103-94) - 18 points (8-12), 15 rebounds
DAL (win 99-96) - 26 points (12-18), 12 rebounds
MEM (loss 112-105) - 31 points (11-21), 15 rebounds
WAS (loss 115-110) - 16 points (7-18), 13 rebounds
LAL (win 104-99) - 13 points (6-18), 15 rebounds


Those eight games make up the majority of his play for the month of February. There are some good teams mixed in there, they weren't all total blowouts and they weren't at the end of the season when, by your logic, no one cares.

How can these be explained?

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 07-01-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:50 PM   #188
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Fredette-Evans-Salmons-Hickson-Cousins, I mean, just wow. The closest thing to even a mediocre defender is Salmons, but his effort wanes a lot and he needs strong team D around him. No help from his bigs will make things tough and he has to guard bigger 3s instead of 2s now. Evans and Fredette may work offensively, but defensively its putrid. Plus like I said, everyone needs shots, including MArcus Thronton off the bench. GS version 2!


This team would be a lot better with Udrih(extremely efficient last year), Casspi and having drafted someone like Leonard or Brandon Knight at 7. Keep Thompson around and put your energy into re-upping Dalembert, the one guy who plays D. Drafting Honeycutt was the one good move.

The Kings traded Udrih away because even though he is a great facilitator, albeit the best on the Kings, he couldn't defend anybody. Hence why they traded for John Salmons who can consistently defend on the wing and hit open jump shots. He knows he's being brought in for that, and he knows he doesn't have to create on offense.

Jimmer isn't going to be the starting PG, it's going to be Evans. And Evans is a good defender when he has been healthy. He wasn't healthy at all last season. Thornton would be starting at SG and he's underrated at the defensive end.

As for the draft, the Kings said so themselves that even if they were still picking at 7, they wouldn't have picked Knight. He has great potential but they don't want to wait around for him to develop because they are attempting to win now. Knight has a huge problem just driving to his left and that didn't go over well with the team officials.

As for the move of Hickson, it's not like they added him to be a creator on offense. They added him to create some havoc on the offensive rim. The Kings are still looking to add another center, and if it's a big name, there's no guarantee Hickson even sees over 20 minutes a night.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:59 PM   #189
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzuki
i actually said the same exxact thing regarding his weaknesses earlier in this thread i believe. i know i mentioned his butterfingers and inconsistent play, but he was a beast towards the end of last year where those inconsistencies were much fewer and far between.

all in all tho he's a borderline star, which some people are laughing at. altho i stand by it.

i'm a NBA fan, that follows my fantasy team more than homer'ing players...and i generally pull for underdogs. once they get good i tend to stop watching them, like OKC and Chicago...
so, a blockhead who shows little effort for long stretches and has hands as bad as Kwame Brown is a top 15 PF in the league? You guys are funny
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #190
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Default Re: Hickson for Casspi? Advanced talks

great for sac town
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:17 PM   #191
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Basically, my position is that he is not as good as those touting him seem to want to think and he isn't as bad as his detractors are indicating.

He is somewhere in the middle.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:20 PM   #192
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

on the entire Hickson thing: when he was a Cav and he was pretty much balling last year, im sure he got absolutely ZERO bids as a top 10-15 player from someone NOT pro-Cavs. Hickson is a good NBA player, no question. but he's inconsistent as hell. everyone has their defects and Hickson's, is that he doesnt play much D, bad work ethic and inconsistency. there were even reports that he and Coach Scott had "disagree" and blah blah blah.

so you guys can say what you want, but lets not act like Cleveland just gave away Al Jefferson or something. we gave up a young big man with potential, and its up to his team/coaches/etc to light a fire under him to bring out a better work ethic.

in return, we got a young wing that can start right away at a position of need, AND a 1st round draft pick. albeit, it'll probably be a low one, but next years draft class is loaded. so the picks that are in the 20s would probably be top 12 picks of this years class.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:25 PM   #193
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.


i guess the Bucks being one of the best defensive teams in the NBA doesn't count for anything

so you're saying he's a scrub?> we'll see next season because you'll be eating a lot of crow
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #194
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
so, a blockhead who shows little effort for long stretches and has hands as bad as Kwame Brown is a top 15 PF in the league? You guys are funny


actually he showed unbelievable effort and heart last season, you're still judging him by prior to last season. if anything he was motivated, and played his ass off on a team going nowhere, but it was more a team motivated thing than just JJ, altho i'd say he was a leader in that regard or inspiration to work hard to get wins.

if anything i thought he played decent D last year, and at the very least with a lot of effort playing the Center spot, altho he was overmatched against very tall freak centers, but thats most big men who aren't freaks it seems.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:34 PM   #195
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Default Re: TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Basically, my position is that he is not as good as those touting him seem to want to think and he isn't as bad as his detractors are indicating.

He is somewhere in the middle.


the way they're trying to portray him i don't know how you can pretend to meet a middle point. i don't think most of us are exaggerating how good he is, nobody has said he's a all star or star even, but i think someone could easily make that argument. when the critics are saying Casspi could be considered better, how JJ only put up numbers because of a team going nowhere in blowout losses, comparing him to Walter Hermann, and you're going to meet them in the middle?

whatever. a lot of people here are clueless when they don't watch, or if they do just have poor observational skills. i wish this thread could stay stickied to the end of the next season....
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