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Old 07-02-2011, 01:33 PM   #31
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh

He is. If you knew anything about Dirk or the Mavs, you would know this.

This is funny because these are the responses I got all year when I tried to explain to people that Dirk was actually one of the most clutch players in the league and that the Mavs were arguably the most clutch team in the league.

Who is laughing now?
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Because he does nothing better than Bird except shoot (and be better at it).

How old are you?
So how exactly does that mean he wouldn't be successful at all? You said he would win ZERO rings right? Not to mention Dirk would have be able to play with the Celtics to the 90s because he wasn't injury prone like Bird was. You don't have to be as good or better than the other player to be successful. I never said Dirk would win 3 rings like Bird did, I think Dirk would win 1 at the least and maybe 2 which isn't crazy at all.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowitzness81
Brees is 21st on the all time passing TD list and has a championship.

If you don't like the Brees/Dirk comparison it's probably because you don't realize how good Drew Brees is.

Montana=Jordan

Brees=Nowitzki


I guess if you switch Dirk with Jordan the Bulls still win 6 titles?
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Heroic One
So how exactly does that mean he wouldn't be successful at all? You said he would win ZERO rings right? Not to mention Dirk would have be able to play with the Celtics to the 90s because he wasn't injury prone like Bird was. You don't have to be as good or better than the other player to be successful. I never said Dirk would win 3 rings like Bird did, I think Dirk would win 1 at the least and maybe 2 which isn't crazy at all.

What do you miss if Bird were to be replaced?

Use your brain.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
What do you miss if Bird were to be replaced?

Use your brain.
Great argument, I guess it is because you have no response for me. Yeah that's what I thought. You probably didn't even watch the 80s live, just watched a bunch of film and stats, and you just listen to general opinion of Bird, so you try to act smart in this thread.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Educate people? Right.

lol at thinking Dirk could replace Bird and still win 2-3 titles. Nothing supports that. Bird had an all-around game Dirk could only dream of.

Silly thread made be a prepubescent french fry who started watching basketball after Dirk was drafted.

Titles aren't always about that. You act like Bird was the perfect player or something. He wasn't.

He had his fair share of playoff disappointments.

Dirk has better playoff numbers. Dirk is great with the game on the line. Those Celtics teams had everything Dirk would need. He'd fit in perfectly playing alongside Parrish and Mchale because he could stretch the floor.

Yes, educate:

26/10/3 46/38/89 58.4 TS 24.7 PER

24/10/7 47/32/89 55.1 TS 21.4 PER

Dirk was a better scorer and rebounder in the playoffs. See, this is when things like PER are actually valuable because you can compare across eras more easily.

Stop acting like it was all Bird. It wasn't. And stop acting like a Dirk led team couldn't beat a great team in the Finals.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28renyoy
Montana=Jordan

Brees=Nowitzki


I guess if you switch Dirk with Jordan the Bulls still win 6 titles?

Well I would rather compare Bird to Montana because of the stacked team analogy.

The 49ers and Celtics were both stacked.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
It's funny because I lived in Dallas for 7 years, kiddo ... and watch IRK Nowitzki and the Mavericks. There has been NO defense until THIS year. In 2006 they were decent, but they actually started playing it this year. The reason why the team was so good was because of the addittion of Tyson Chandler, Marion and Kidd's rejuivinated play. To even insinuate Dirk is a good man defender is laughable at best. And to think he's win as many titles as Bird on the 80's Celtics is insulting to any true basketball fan. Bird had superior bball IQ, court vision, passing ability, and yes ... was the superior defender / rebounder. It's not even a contest. Dirk's also SOFT. Bird was in the ELITE class of ultutimate competitors. Is Larry Legend winning MVP, winning 67 games, and getting booted in the 1st round by a number 8th seed?


Is anyone saying Dirk is better? Nope.

Do you realize that Parrish is easily better than Chandler. Easily. Its not close. Dirk would have so much more help in Boston its sickening.

And you are wrong about Dirk on defense. He's been a solid man to man defender for years. Its team defense he struggles in. Specifically rotating off his man to protect the rim.

Dirk actually plays the passing lanes well and is a beast on the defensive glass. Where Dirk struggled and deserves criticism is his play on pick and rolls and rim protection. Dirk, like every player, has weaknesses. The Mavs did a terrible job giving him the right kind of help.

Then Chandler comes along. Finally a player that can do the things Dirk can't. And we win a title in the first year. LOL

And again. Parrish is better at those things than Chandler. Much better overall player. LOL
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Titles aren't always about that. You act like Bird was the perfect player or something. He wasn't.

He was a much, MUCH better all-around player than Dirk. That's the point.

Quote:

Yes, educate:

26/10/3 46/38/89 58.4 TS 24.7 PER

24/10/7 47/32/89 55.1 TS 21.4 PER

Lets assume each assist is worth 2 points:

Bird assisted his team for 38 points on a better FG%, equal rebounds, and better defense (and other intangibles such as leadership qualities--we can leave this one out though, whatever).

Dirk assisted his team for 33 points on a worse shooting %, and worse defense.

Quote:
Stop acting like it was all Bird.

Quoted from Mchale and Chief: He made us Hall of Famers


Of course it wasn't "all Bird". He was the main-catalyst though. Not sure why this is even being debated. Bird had a top 5-10 peak(at worst) with BETTER all-around play.

Last edited by catch24 : 07-02-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
He was a much, MUCH better all-around player than Dirk. That's the point.



Lets assume each assists is worth 2 points:

Bird assisted his team for 38 points on a better FG%, equal rebounds, and better defense (and other intangibles such as leadership qualities--we can leave this one out though, whatever).

Dirk assisted his team for 33 points on a worse shooting %, and worse defense.



Quoted from Mchale and Chief: He made us Hall of Famers


Of course wasn't "all Bird". He was the main-catalyst though. Not sure why this is even being debated. Bird had a top 5-10 (at worst) with BETTER all-around play.

You have to adjust for pace and style if you want to go with that kind of thinking.

Dirk would have been averaging 12 boards a game in the 80's on pace alone. His assists would go up for sure as well on pace and because he played with so many other great players.

Think about what you are saying. You are saying that there is no way Dirk wins a title in place of Bird. Think about that.

Bird won a title in 81 averaging 22/14/6 on 53% TS. Maxwell was finals MVP. You really think Dirk has no chance to win a title on that team?

And LOL at the idea Dirk wouldn't have a chance on the 86 Celtics. That team might be the best team ever. They won 67 games and went 15-3 in the playoffs.

Do you realize that the Celtics won the title twice without playing the Lakers?

Come on Catch.....you know that is silly to say.

Last edited by DMAVS41 : 07-02-2011 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

0. Bird was a top 5 player and had a top 3 Peak ever and sometimes the Celtics barely won.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:53 PM   #42
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiiu
0. Bird was a top 5 player and had a top 3 Peak ever and sometimes the Celtics barely won.

The average version of Dirk in the playoffs for his career was every bit as good as Bird in 1981. Every bit, probably better actually.

The Celtics won the title.

And in 86 the Celtics were scary good.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
You have to adjust for pace and style if you want to go with that kind of thinking.

Dirk would have been averaging 12 boards a game in the 80's on pace alone. His assists would go up for sure as well on pace and because he played with so many other great players.

Think about what you are saying. You are saying that there is no way Dirk wins a title in place of Bird. Think about that.

Bird won a title in 81 averaging 22/14/6 on 53% TS. Maxwell was finals MVP. You really think Dirk has no chance to win a title on that team?

Come on Catch.....you know that is silly to say.

I go by what said player did in their respective ERA. I don't adjust for stats, etc. Sorry man, I just don't see any rational in vacuuming a players numbers (except if we're talking about Wilt grabbing 30+ rebounds in the 60's).

Plus you would have to do the same for Dirk back then (he wouldn't shoot as many 3's, not get the foul calls he receives today), etc. Gotta factor in all of that good stuff.

Dirk won a title on 22/14/6 -- not sure why you're brushing that off like it's not great all-around play.

And? Dirk shot in the 30 percentile against Golden State, one of the worst defenses the last decade. Why should I trust a guy who barely led a team to a title (in his 12th year), to replace a legend who led his team to the promise land multiple times, and doing so while being the better player.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:00 PM   #44
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
I go by what said player did in their respective ERA. I don't adjust for stats, etc. Sorry man, I just don't see any rational in vacuuming a players numbers (except if we're talking about Wilt grabbing 30+ rebounds in the 60's).

Plus you would have to do the same for Dirk back then (he wouldn't shoot as many 3's, not get the foul calls he receives today), etc. Gotta factor in all of that good stuff.

Dirk won a title on 22/14/6 -- not sure why you're brushing that off like it's not great all-around play.

And? Dirk shot in the 30 percentile against Golden State, one of the worst defenses the last decade. Why should I trust a guy who barely led a team to a title (in his 12th year), to replace a legend who led his team to the promise land multiple times, and doing so while being the better player.

How do you barely lead a team to a title? That doesn't even make sense....and hardly what Dirk just did. Dirk just completed one of the best playoff runs of all time.

Barely?

I hope you realize that the 86 Celtics supporting cast compared to their competition was leaps and bounds better than the current Mavs. Its not remotely close.

Dirk has proven himself in the playoffs time and time again. He has now proven he can lead a huge underdog to a title. Not many superstars have proven that.

0 titles is just hilarious. And people wonder why I defend Dirk constantly. Its shit like this. After Dirk just won one of the most improbable titles in NBA history....people here claim Dirk has "NO CHANCE" to win a title playing on some of the most stacked teams in NBA history with a team/style perfectly suited for him.

Wow.

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Old 07-02-2011, 02:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Replace Larry Bird with Dirk Nowitski on the 80s Celtics

Meant to say Bird averaging 22/10/6. I'm sure you knew that, though.
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