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Old 07-06-2011, 02:08 PM   #136
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Are you talking about the series or game 7? I can understand if you think Kobe's game 7 was better. I disagree, but its not unreasonable. But if you are talking about the series I just don't see it.

Because Kobe was the exact opposite of clutch in that series. He was dreadful in the 4th qtrs and crunch time....he was not the one making the big shots at any point in that series.

Kobe played great man to man defense? Ok, lets say I agree, even though I don't. Lebron played better man to man defense against a superior player. Lebron flat out shut Pierce down to the point where people were asking Pierce if he was hurt he was playing so bad. Pierce had his worst playoff game against Lebron....and 4 of his worst 5 in the playoffs as well.

No doubt Kobe hampered Rondo, but that had a lot to do with the scheme and front line defense. You should go back and check out the Orlando series. Rondo was really bad. He played almost identical against them.....and it had everything to do with the way the Magic played him and Howard in the paint.

All the other stuff is highly debatable. And LOL at using poise for Kobe. He was anything but poised in games 2 and 3. If Fisher doesn't turn in to Michael Jordan at the end of game 3, Kobe's lack of clutch play and poise kills them. And of course, Kobe had no poise whatsoever in game 7....jacking up terrible shot after terrible shot digging his team a 13 point 2nd half deficit.......and then heavily relied on Fisher/Artest/Pau to make the big plays late in that game.


Better? Sure...debatable.

Easily better? No way in hell.

The series.

You don't see it, I do. When someone quits during the middle of a series, they lose all credibility. Simple and plain, no ifs and or buts about it. When you're comparing that series to someone's who may have embed slightly worse all-around numbers, but still had better in-game means, it's not really all that close. Kobe treated the game with respect, LeBron did not. The guy tried coming back next game and still had a similar mentality, except he finished with a triple double. He also had 9 turnovers, which in turn made it one of the more deceiving/overrated TD's in playoff history (kind of like that TD in Dallas this past Finals--looks great on paper but much like LeBron's career, he came up short when in mattered most).

Last edited by catch24 : 07-06-2011 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:17 PM   #137
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
The series.

You don't see it, I do. When someone quits during the middle of a series, they lose all credibility. Simple and plain, no ifs and or buts about it. When you're comparing that series to someone's who may have embed slightly worse all-around numbers, still had better in-game means. Kobe treated the game with respect, LeBron did not. The guy tried coming back next game and still had a similar mentality, except he finished with a triple double. He also had 9 turnovers, which in turn made it one of the more deceiving/overrated TD's in playoff history (kind of like that TD in Dallas this past Finals--looks great on paper but much like LeBron's career, he came up short when in mattered most).

If you want to claim he quit for the series, then that is your opinion and that is fine. I don't see how anyone can claim he quit in the first 4 games or how he quit in game 6.

I don't think anyone here is being even remotely fair in factoring in the completely different circumstances. The idea of Kobe playing well enough to win that series with Lebron's help is just laughable. Honestly, I'm not sure Kobe could have gotten that series to a game 6 in place of Lebron.

Nobody is saying....OMG Lebron had a triple double in game 6...he played awesome. At least I'm not. But to say he was bad in that game and then turn around and credit Kobe for things might not even exist is just silly.

Again, you have to factor in the circumstances a little. Lebron having less help. Lebron having a worse coach. Lebron playing a healthy Celtics team. That stuff matters.

And like I said, its the "with ease" horseshit that needs to stop. Nothing "easily" or "with ease" about it....especially when pretty much every objective measure favors Lebron.....

And he did it facing much more difficult circumstances and carrying a heavier burden on both ends.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:25 PM   #138
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

It's not what I'm "claiming", it's what it was...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...2&sportCat=nba -- his biggest Cheerleader wrote a play-by-play of his "quit-job"

He plays the way he did this past Finals (in the 4th quarters) and it becomes more and more obvious the guy just lays down when the pressure is too great. He quit in 2010 and ran away completely this past year.

Just calling it like I see it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:28 PM   #139
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
It's not what I'm "claiming", it's what it was...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...2&sportCat=nba -- his biggest Cheerleader wrote a play-by-play of his "quit-job"

He plays the way he did this past Finals (in the 4th quarters) and it becomes more and more obvious the guy just lays down when the pressure is too great. I say he quit in 2010 and ran away completely this past year.

Just calling it like I see it.

And I could say the same thing about Kobe. He lays down. In fact, he's laid down more than Lebron has throughout his career.

But that is not what this is about. Lets say he absolutely quit in game 5. You can't lose a series in 1 game. You can only lose 1 game in 1 game.

And again, he still played as well or better than Kobe for the series quitting or not. How sad is that? He has no help and "quits"....and still manages to outproduce Kobe and play better defense.

But yea, Kobe was "easily" better.......
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:32 PM   #140
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
And I could say the same thing about Kobe. He lays down. In fact, he's laid down more than Lebron has throughout his career.

Of course you could, but you can't call LeBron a champion, something Kobe is.

He quit when the series was tied 2-2, at home. That's as bad as it gets.

Again, whether he played better than Kobe a few more games is irrelevant. He quit when it mattered, and laid down the next game. 3 great games vs Kobe's 3-4 good/great games and a Finals MVP. Like I said, not close.

You think someone who "quit" during the middle of a series played just as well as someone who put up slightly-less all-around numbers, but was more clutch, had better intangibles, and came up with a W. That's fine, hilarious, but your opinion nevertheless.

You will never change my opinion, stop trying.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:44 PM   #141
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Of course you could, but you can't call LeBron a champion, something Kobe is.

He quit when the series was tied 2-2, at home. That's as bad as it gets.

Again, whether he played better than Kobe a few more games is irrelevant. He quit when it mattered, and laid down the next game. 3 great games vs Kobe's 3-4 good/great games and a Finals MVP. Like I said, not close.

You think someone who "quit" during the middle of a series played just as well as someone who put up slightly-less all-around numbers, but was more clutch, had better intangibles, and came up with a W. That's fine, hilarious, but your opinion nevertheless.

You will never change my opinion, stop trying.


You will never change my opinion, stop trying.

Hilarious? The only thing hilarious is saying its "not close"

So do you think Dirk's finals in 11 were "easily" better than Kobe's finals in 08?

And stop saying Kobe was clutch. He wasn't. He was actually the exact opposite. Intangibles? When? When he nearly killed his team in game 3 playing like an idiot? Or when he nearly killed his team in game 7 playing like an idiot? When he crumbled in crunch time in game 2?

Lebron played better defense. Do you dispute this?

With ease? GTFO.....
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:36 PM   #142
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

LBJ can bounce back and play great, but his legacy took a hit though.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:27 PM   #143
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
never said he didn't. i know he did, but how can someone who did that ^^ just turn into a nothingman on the court.
Excellent Zone defense, coupled with cowardice and deference under pressure.
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