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Old 07-05-2011, 04:18 PM   #31
thejumpa
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

He's 26 and has a lot of basketball left in him. A LOT. As long as he wins, all this will be forgotten.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejumpa
He's 26 and has a lot of basketball left in him. A LOT. As long as he wins, all this will be forgotten.


Is that so certain? I don't think his career will end anytime soon but he's a flawed player with no post game, no clutch ability and some people have noticed he is appearing to lose some of his athlectism that is essential to his game.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

ESPN has always PO'd me with their coverage of players. When someone is doing great (Lebron) they worship him, call him the GOAT and the Chosen One. Soon as the player does bad, they turn on them.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejumpa
He's 26 and has a lot of basketball left in him. A LOT. As long as he wins, all this will be forgotten.


This is so true. If Lebron somehow wins 4 championships in the next decade, 20 years down the road revisionist history will summarize his career as one of the most dominant players to ever play the game who won 4 rings.

Which is why it is so important to rub it in right now in case that happens for those who dislike Lebron
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

I really don't think Lebron's playoff run up to the finals was THAT great. It was okay, but I've seen far better.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

The complete shift in coverage and people's perception of LeBron during the EC playoffs is a testament to how winning DRIVES everything. An athlete's entire image is result-oriented. You win, and people view you positively - as was the case with LeBron pre-Finals. You lose, and everything you didn't do in order to win is put under the microscope.

This is for those idiots who think LeBron's image is irredeemable or he has to do something beyond-the-court to change how people view him. NOBODY gives a crap about how arrogant you are, what you say or whom you fu*ked over AS LONG AS you kick ass on the court. As long as you win, you have everybody's respect. That's what LeBron lacks right now - people's respect for him as a player. Winning while playing well will cure all of that.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavincent
I really don't think Lebron's playoff run up to the finals was THAT great. It was okay, but I've seen far better.

You are right, but the whole "LeBron's never played better!" talk that was so prevalent during the playoffs is just another testament to how winning completely dominates your image. All LeBron had to do was play reasonably well and come through late in games and he was suddenly playing better than ever, which was a joke if you had actually followed the guy's career. 10-11 LeBron wasn't even 90% the player he was the previous 2 seasons.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavincent
I really don't think Lebron's playoff run up to the finals was THAT great. It was okay, but I've seen far better.

Name me some better ones you have seen from other wing players not named Jordan.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
You are right, but the whole "LeBron's never played better!" talk that was so prevalent during the playoffs is just another testament to how winning completely dominates your image. All LeBron had to do was play reasonably well and come through late in games and he was suddenly playing better than ever, which was a joke if you had actually followed the guy's career. 10-11 LeBron wasn't even 90% the player he was the previous 2 seasons.

Its not about the monster numbers, its about him breaking hearts like only Jordan did in the 90s. Going on the road and repeatedly delivering daggers, idc if you are a hater of what the semis and ECF was greatness .
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

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Originally Posted by asdf1990
Name me some better ones you have seen from other wing players not named Jordan.

There are many in league history.For last decade Kobe,Iverson,Wade i can remember.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:54 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf1990
Its not about the monster numbers, its about him breaking hearts like only Jordan did in the 90s. Going on the road and repeatedly delivering daggers, idc if you are a hater of what the semis and ECF was greatness .

He wasn't doing anything at the end of games in these series' that he hadn't done before while putting up much better numbers on far better efficiency. You, like everybody else, are just being blinded by the W's.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenneBell
He was averaging 32/6/6 on 50% up to the Finals.


I guess but I didn't think it was all that great of a run. He had some good games and closed out well but statistically(26/9/5) and just watching the game, LeBron wasn't dominating enough to have an all-time great playoff run.

Stats don't tell the whole story. He was extremely clutch in the Celtics and Bulls series and was a beast defensively. I haven't seen perimeter defense like that since Jordan and Pippen. He was hitting big shots when they needed it most. I remember looking at his stats through the ECF and being surprised they weren't better, much like I was surprised Dirk only 42% in the Finals. Like I said, stats don't tell the whole story. I wouldn't say he was better then 09, but I think it would easily be his 2nd best playoff run if it wasn't for the horrible Finals. Even with the horrible Finals, it still arguably is his 2nd best.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

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Originally Posted by Mamba
never said he didn't. i know he did, but how can someone who did that ^^ just turn into a nothingman on the court.
Then /end argument.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

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Originally Posted by guy
Even with the horrible Finals, it still arguably is his 2nd best.



There isn't a single metric supporting 2011 even as a Top 5 playoff run by LeBron. And it only gets worse if I throw numbers out the window, and strictly judge him by on-court play.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
The complete shift in coverage and people's perception of LeBron during the EC playoffs is a testament to how winning DRIVES everything. An athlete's entire image is result-oriented. You win, and people view you positively - as was the case with LeBron pre-Finals. You lose, and everything you didn't do in order to win is put under the microscope.

This is for those idiots who think LeBron's image is irredeemable or he has to do something beyond-the-court to change how people view him. NOBODY gives a crap about how arrogant you are, what you say or whom you fu*ked over AS LONG AS you kick ass on the court. As long as you win, you have everybody's respect. That's what LeBron lacks right now - people's respect for him as a player. Winning while playing well will cure all of that.

Some of this is true. Although Lebron wouldn't be getting half of this hate if he had played average instead of terrible.

Wade isn't getting much hate because he played well and lost.

But yes, you are right that winning will cure this. The problem is that we are grading Lebron on a certain curve. He's already one of the 20 to 25 best players of all time. He will, barring injury, go down as one of the best players of all time.

But his ceiling was a top 5 player of all time....maybe even higher as recent as 2 or 3 seasons ago. I don't think he has much of a chance to reach that anymore. Some of that is not his fault. Some of it is.

Can Lebron change the perception about him and make a run at the top 10 of all time? Sure. Can he make a run that matches his all time ranking with his talent/potential? Doubtful at this point.

And I think that is why he gets so much hate. In the past it really wasn't deserved. Lebron's first 7 years were amazing. He came up short only a few times and it was perfectly reasonable as he's a human being and not perfect. Very few players in the history of the game, if any, did more with less than Lebron did with the Cavs from 07 to 10.

But his last 2 years hurt him a lot. In the heart of his prime, he came up really small against the Celtics in 10 and then absolutely fell apart on the biggest stage in the NBA......with a loaded team at that. That is going to seriously hurt his legacy forever.
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