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Old 07-05-2011, 04:19 PM   #31
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41

This is about long term for the owners. They care more about profitability than popularity.

That is the issue. Even with the NBA reaching great levels of popularity, the owners aren't making much money (if any at all) because the current CBA has created a messed up league.





First of all, the amount the owners are profiting is debatable. Of course they are going to claim huge losses, but as we've seen, those numbers are easily skewed.


Secondly, when did owning a pro sports franchise become a sound investment? Pro sports teams have always been risky purchases, and that's why it is BILLIONAIRES and MULTIMILLIONAIRES that own them. Now, all of a sudden, they want to GUARANTEE profits?

If that's the case, I'd like to get in on this 'guaranteed' investment, as I'm sure everyone in the World would.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

And anyone who thinks guaranteed profits is good for the league is fooling themselves. All that encourages is mediocrity. Look at Donald Sterling, the owner of the Clips. He's been turning a profit every season... and the results show on the court.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
It would never fall off like hockey did.

This is about long term for the owners. They care more about profitability than popularity.

That is the issue. Even with the NBA reaching great levels of popularity, the owners aren't making much money (if any at all) because the current CBA has created a messed up league.

Are the owners at fault mainly for this? Yep. But to act like losing a year hurts the owners or their bottom line is just silly. It hurts the fans and players. Not the owners.

The owners save 2.1 billion in player salary and don't have to pay the operating costs (if you believe the owners) that are putting them in the red every year.

I hope the players realize this. If they stand their ground, they can never get back that 2.1 billion. That is why the owners have the power. The very act of missing a year puts the players in a 2.1 billion hole that will take years to get out of.

And nothing would be worse for the players to miss a year and then end up signing a deal they could have signed right now.

Losing just 1 year of the Heatles is a huge loss for Stern. The NBA hasn't been this good since the Jordan era. Stern knows this. It would be a huge setback to lose an entire season during this wave.

What I see happening is the players accepting a slight loss on salaries, maybe a harder cap but still with exceptions, and some sort of revenue sharing from the big market teams. The revenue sharing is honestly the only way to bring balance back to the league. I would prefer they cut teams but that won't happen so revenue sharing is next best solution.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

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Originally Posted by MeLO MvP 15
But you have to think, how many owners will be willing to say that or back it up. I understand that like 10 owners will believe that because they have crappy teams and would love to miss a season if it meant a better chance for them to compete... but there are plenty of owners that won't want to forfeit a whole season and will come to their sense and lower their demands.
Owners think long term, there are only a few (10 tops) that want to keep it the way it is, the big markets and big spenders.

Derek Fisher doesn't have that many years left.. Lebron doesn't want to miss a year of his prime after this season

Most owners would get more money and a bigger chance at winning, it's worth it for the coaches, they are already old and got more than enough money

And I agree, basketball will always be popular. That's not a worry
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Also it was the owners who were declared the winners in the last 3 CBAs after the players gave in and took the deal. Why are the owners doing so bad in a deal the supposedly won?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:51 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
First of all, the amount the owners are profiting is debatable. Of course they are going to claim huge losses, but as we've seen, those numbers are easily skewed.

Secondly, when did owning a pro sports franchise become a sound investment? Pro sports teams have always been risky purchases, and that's why it is BILLIONAIRES and MULTIMILLIONAIRES that own them. Now, all of a sudden, they want to GUARANTEE profits?

If that's the case, I'd like to get in on this 'guaranteed' investment, as I'm sure everyone in the World would.
Guess what? This is the same case on equity securities before the recession. US stock market had been on a steady upward trend for the past years that nobody foresaw what was going to happen.

Same thing happening now on US Treasuries. 5 years ago they were called the "risk free" investments. Now you see most investment managers fleeing at the very sight of US Treasuries.

The US economy had a complete turnaround after the recession. Most billionaires aren't worth what they were a few years ago. Before the recession it was ok to have a "cost center" like an NBA team because owners treated them as a hobby, with their main line of business supporting this expensive hobby.

Fast forward today, suddendly their main line of business isn't doing too cool, and can't seem to support this hobby. And everyone has got to tighten their belt. Who are we to say that them billionaires can't wisen up and right this ship?

Also, the way you said BILLIONAIRES AND MULTIMILLIONAIRES own sports franchises make it sound that it's ok for them to lose money? Is that what you're saying? Then maybe we need to find Saudi gazzillionaires who could buy off these teams and they not worry about losing money on them.

People forget that the NBA is a business and the primary purpose of a business is to make money. Not appease the fanbase. Especially true for "groups" that own a team. Even if the majority shareholder is uber rich and doesn't mind losing money, what abou the minority shareholders?
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

People keep on saying that there needs to be profit in owning these teams but look at the Green Bay Packers. They are a publically held team that returns no profit to their shareholders, and people from that area know this yet continue to buy the stock because they love their team.

The owners should be looking to make profit when they sell their team and not on a year to year basis.


Edit: Just looked up something else on the Packers. Not only will they not pay dividends but they will not allow the stock to appreciate in value. At least NBA owners make a killing when they sell their team.

Last edited by Sarcastic : 07-05-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

I don't have the ratings from this year's Stanley Cup Finals series but last year's series was actually pretty high. It almost matched the Celtics-Lakers series when they went head-to-head on a Sunday night (NBA/ABC vs NHL/NBC).

There was also an article from last year about NBA ticket sales, it wasn't even half of what the NHL sales are doing. NHL TV ratings are not as good as the NBA's TV ratings but they're doing great in terms of ticket sales.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The ultimate goal is supposed to be winning a title. Year to year profitability is not guaranteed in any sport but for the most part all the owners are able to see huge profit when they eventually sell the team.

Look at the Yankees. They are one of the most profitable teams in sports, yet they are willing to put all that profit right back into the team if it means winning another title. Their ultimate goal is winning and because they put out a great product every year their customers always come back.

Really bad idea to use the Yankees as an example. I'm not even going to explain why, I feel it should be obvious.

Multiple sources and reports show that the majority of the NBA teams are operating at a loss, and have been for years now. Profitability is not guaranteed... agreed. That's the nature of business. But when the trend for the majority of teams looks to continue trending down-ward, the only thing the owners can do to combat that is with a new CBA contract. As owners there doing exactly what is expected, which is to exercise the right to a new agreement as the current contract closes that better ensures them profit.

And no, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. That is the ultimate goal for a player. Good owners take that to heart and filter the rewards of winning back into the organization to reward the fans. But from a pure owner and business standpoint, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. It is to make money. Business 101.

Looking at the responses here, you are clearly stretching here on your island.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

The teams are posting losses because they can write off players values as if they were machines or cars that lose value every year.
People need to realize that those write off losses are purely fictional and actually add to the bottom line of the owners, because they can subtract these fictional losses from their taxes.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs4toniee
And no, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. That is the ultimate goal for a player. Good owners take that to heart and filter the rewards of winning back into the organization to reward the fans. But from a pure owner and business standpoint, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. It is to make money. Business 101.

Of course the goal is to make money. Now, no owner is forced to sign players to salaries he can't afford.
If these owners do know their business 101, then making a profit should be rather simple: don't spend more money than you make.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The idea that so many teams are losing money skeptical. Independent figures show that the league is actually still profitable, albeit at a much smaller percentage than the past.
Independent figures are just projections taken from the bits and pieces that are known to public.


The fact that the owners opened their accounting books to the players should mean something. The union asked for more financial data from the teams in the last meeting, seems like they aren't totally dismissing the owners claims, they just want to make sure the numbers are correct.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brain drain
The teams are posting losses because they can write off players values as if they were machines or cars that lose value every year.
People need to realize that those write off losses are purely fictional and actually add to the bottom line of the owners, because they can subtract these fictional losses from their taxes.
I thought the deadspin angle/argument was already refuted? Why do people continue to use this argument over and over again?

Much like the Lebron dollar quarter joke
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:30 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Lol bro, you went from this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The idea that so many teams are losing money skeptical. Independent figures show that the league is actually still profitable, albeit at a much smaller percentage than the past. Escalating salaries can't be the sole reason for this. When the last CBA was signed the players made 60% of league revenue. In 2010 they made 58% of league revenue. Something else is going on with these owners and blaming the players for bad business decisions is a cop out.

I'll post it later from my computer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
People keep on saying that there needs to be profit in owning these teams but look at the Green Bay Packers. They are a publically held team that returns no profit to their shareholders, and people from that area know this yet continue to buy the stock because they love their team.

The owners should be looking to make profit when they sell their team and not on a year to year basis.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ric Bucher: Owners of both NBA/NHL teams, say a whole season lockout is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs4toniee
Really bad idea to use the Yankees as an example. I'm not even going to explain why, I feel it should be obvious.

Multiple sources and reports show that the majority of the NBA teams are operating at a loss, and have been for years now. Profitability is not guaranteed... agreed. That's the nature of business. But when the trend for the majority of teams looks to continue trending down-ward, the only thing the owners can do to combat that is with a new CBA contract. As owners there doing exactly what is expected, which is to exercise the right to a new agreement as the current contract closes that better ensures them profit.

And no, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. That is the ultimate goal for a player. Good owners take that to heart and filter the rewards of winning back into the organization to reward the fans. But from a pure owner and business standpoint, the ultimate goal is not to win a championship. It is to make money. Business 101.

Looking at the responses here, you are clearly stretching here on your island.


Actually the Yankees are a great example. George Steinbrenner's famous quote goes something like: "Winning is the second most important thing in life. Breathing is 1, and winning is 2". Point is he was willing to do whatever it took to put a winning team on the field, no matter the cost.
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