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Old 07-03-2011, 09:09 PM   #1
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Default How long before the players cave in?

Let's be honest here. The owners are not going to cave in with 22 teams losing money in 2010. A majority of the owners would prefer that there is no season in 2011. Who will blink first? In my opinion it will be the players.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

I think the owners will cave in first. There are too many of them with too much to lose if we miss a season. Orlando loses Dwight for nothing if we don't have a season. Nets lose D-Will for nothing if we don't have a season. Miami loses another chance at a title. Knicks lose out on Amar'e/Melo combo and selling tickets at the new and improved MSG. This could be the last chance for the Lakers with Kobe. The Mavericks lose out on all the momentum of this years championship.

You think these owners are going to lose the season because Milwaukee, Minnesota, Indiana, etc are losing money?
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

I doubt the Players cave. Yes the Owners are strong, but Hunter and the Players are too. And now favorable reports such as this one from Larry Coon >>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ancials-110630, which show that the Owners may be doctoring the numbers to make them reflect a loss unrelated to money earned by Players. If Coon is correct, its very possible that instead of 20+ teams losing money only 7 or 8 are, and they seem to be losing less than $20 mil a year.

If this is true and it is happening throughout the league, the Players may have a leg to stand on if the legal route is pursued and they allege that the Owners are negotiating in bad faith. I could very well see a court ruling that The combination of utilizing these figures instead of basketball-related expenses combined with their offers which included taking away so many rights from Players (i.e. guaranteed contracts, hard cap, smaller contract lengths, etc.) in times of increasing viewership and attendance as negotiating in bad faith.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Players cave first. Billionaires can out wait millionaires and when the billionaires are the ones paying the millionaires salary it's even worse. Look at how many players go broke or show signs of bad money management already and that's with the paychecks rolling in. Come fall when the checks stop and there's no end in sight the players will get nervous. There isn't one owner in the League that relies on his team as his lone source of income. Most of the players this is the only source of income.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
I think the owners will cave in first. There are too many of them with too much to lose if we miss a season. Orlando loses Dwight for nothing if we don't have a season. Nets lose D-Will for nothing if we don't have a season. Miami loses another chance at a title. Knicks lose out on Amar'e/Melo combo and selling tickets at the new and improved MSG. This could be the last chance for the Lakers with Kobe. The Mavericks lose out on all the momentum of this years championship.

You think these owners are going to lose the season because Milwaukee, Minnesota, Indiana, etc are losing money?


er , 22 teams are losing money. so like 70% of owners acutally would be better off without a season, that's why we are in a lockout right now.

owners of Heat, Knicks ,Lakers , Bulls etc are fine with the current cba, because they are the ones making money and dont have to share with small markets. but they dont have the majority say here. Remember the leader of the the owners is Peter Holts, the owner of the spurs, which loses money every season despite their winning records
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

After the first couple missed checks the players will cave. Look for the season to start around New Year's Day.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Legend#32
After the first couple missed checks the players will cave. Look for the season to start around New Year's Day.

The players are not going to cave in to make those checks smaller.

You're talking about a 33% paycut.

Dont be silly.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

anyone think they will just increase the luxury tax?
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Players cave first. Most NBA owners are NBA owners on the side, and have about a million other things to profit off of. For most players, the NBA is their main/only source of income.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BØBØ
Players cave first. Billionaires can out wait millionaires and when the billionaires are the ones paying the millionaires salary it's even worse. Look at how many players go broke or show signs of bad money management already and that's with the paychecks rolling in. Come fall when the checks stop and there's no end in sight the players will get nervous. There isn't one owner in the League that relies on his team as his lone source of income. Most of the players this is the only source of income.

The owners will blink long before the NBPA does. Missing an entire season would set them back far further than extending the current CBA would. For those same small market teams losing money you're talking about irrepairable damage to their franchise. They will have not capitalized on the success of this past season, and will have chosen to select spending years trying to get back to that point.

Do you think fans are going to come back and fill up the Target Center in Minnesota or Conseco Fieldhouse in Indiana? Fact of the matter is that even getting the hard cap wont change the poor product being put out on the floor leading to poor ticket sales.

Then you factor in an entire year off due to a "labor dispute" and thats pretty much it for those small market teams. You think a year off from paying operationg costs is supposed to save them money? These are billionaires who understand business. It makes much more sense to lose money on a $300 Million investment that increases in value each year. You're losing money on an asset that is growing which pretty much offsets whatever you're losing.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-rose
Players cave first. Most NBA owners are NBA owners on the side, and have about a million other things to profit off of. For most players, the NBA is their main/only source of income.

agree. plus most owners in the small markets will end up LOSING LESS if the season stalls or if they succeed in reducing salaries

and its not as if the players have a choice. if they dont work for the NBA what else would they be doing? Play Euro or China league?

the owners can always find players. I assume they are aplenty in the US of A
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-rose
Players cave first. Most NBA owners are NBA owners on the side, and have about a million other things to profit off of. For most players, the NBA is their main/only source of income.

They are still invested heavily into the NBA, if not they wouldnt be owning this asset for the purpose of watching it grow in value. You dont invest $300 Million into a failing asset because when it fails, you lose your money as well.

& do you even understand how this works? It is the NBAPA vs the Owners, not a broke Delonte West negotiating a deal to end the lockout. Delonte has 0 power because the NBAPA will not decertify, and its too strong at the top to be swayed by an idiot going broke.

Note: Delonte may not be broke, just used him as an example

A team like the Hornets is reportedly losing $6 Million, but the Franchise value has doubled in the last 10 years. That has to count for something.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Why would the owners cave first? Even if they're cooking the books, which should be the default assumption in all sports cba negotations, the players are gonna cry uncle. How else do you explain '99? They barely lasted into January.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashwade
agree. plus most owners in the small markets will end up LOSING LESS if the season stalls or if they succeed in reducing salaries

and its not as if the players have a choice. if they dont work for the NBA what else would they be doing? Play Euro or China league?

the owners can always find players. I assume they are aplenty in the US of A

Yes. That is exactly what they are going to do, maybe even go to Australia.

NBA players have a choice of where they can spend their lockout, unlike NFL players who are contractually obligated to play in the NFL.

The owners can not use replacement players because the players are not on strike. Its the owners locking them out, not the players stepping out of the building.


Those small market teams are going to be screwed far worse without a NBA season. Do you think that they are making a profit by not paying player salaries? Player salaries is just a portion of how a team operates. No games = No revenue. There will be no revenue coming in at all. No ticket sales, No merchandise sales, No advertisements, No ESPN/TNT money, etc. Doing all of this for a hard cap is pointless considering it will be the same mediocre product out on the court keeping their arenas only 65% filled & TV ratings low. In the meantime you ruin your opportunity to capitalize on the NBA's recent success, and are left trying to beg the casual fans to come back to watch your team play whenever the lockout ends.

So you're willing to damage a $300 Million dollar asset only to make a small profit yearly with capped salaries at $10 Million? Be my guest.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: How long before the players cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieg
Why would the owners cave first? Even if they're cooking the books, which should be the default assumption in all sports cba negotations, the players are gonna cry uncle. How else do you explain '99? They barely lasted into January.

Because Stern set a "drop dead" date for the entire season if a deal wasnt reached.

How exactly did they cry uncle when those same agreements reached the owners are trying to take back now?
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