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Old 07-06-2011, 01:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Of course the NBA is gonna dispute any numbers that are different from theirs. They are basing the lockout on their numbers. I guess the courts or arbitrator will determine who is right.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by insidehoops
The NBA has disputed this and says the financials used in that blog are wrong.

Here's the NBA's response:

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=7944
heh, one just needed some common sense to know they weren't accurate.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=42


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Of course the NBA is gonna dispute any numbers that are different from theirs. They are basing the lockout on their numbers. I guess the courts or arbitrator will determine who is right.

Quote:
our financial statements have been audited by an accounting firm jointly engaged by the players’ union and the league. They include basketball revenues reported on related entities’ books.
It would be funny players going to court over numbers that are audited by a firm hired by them.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
Independent figures are just projections taken from the bits and pieces that are known to public.

Because thats all the public has to go on. The media has made requests to have more access to the Owner's books and so far they've been denied.

Right now the NBA is just denying these claims to avoid a PR crisis, but still not releasing more info to the public at large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
The fact that the owners opened their accounting books to the players should mean something. The union asked for more financial data from the teams in the last meeting, seems like they aren't totally dismissing the owners claims, they just want to make sure the numbers are correct.

You realize that if the Owners hadn't opened their accounting books they would have bad negotiating in bad faith and lost the case if sued right?

Contract disputes always involve exchanging of financial data with the 2 sides disagreeing over what constitutes figures that should be included in basketball revenue and the other side saying it doesn't count. Just because one side asks for more info doesn't mean they agree, this could very well just be the Players searching for ammo to help them out later.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:14 AM   #19
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Because thats all the public has to go on. The media has made requests to have more access to the Owner's books and so far they've been denied.

Right now the NBA is just denying these claims to avoid a PR crisis, but still not releasing more info to the public at large.



You realize that if the Owners hadn't opened their accounting books they would have bad negotiating in bad faith and lost the case if sued right?

Contract disputes always involve exchanging of financial data with the 2 sides disagreeing over what constitutes figures that should be included in basketball revenue and the other side saying it doesn't count. Just because one side asks for more info doesn't mean they agree, this could very well just be the Players searching for ammo to help them out later.
What? lulz

NBA isn't just denying it, it's denying it by releasing more info to the public.

Why should the media get full access to the books? Why is even remotely necessary? Do you think they care about what you think?
And please Bad faith? Sued? lol NFL? NBA teams had no obligation whatsoever to show the books to the players.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

How come the NBA didn't dispute any of the claims that the value of the franchises was healthy and that they had been sold for a considerable profit?
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:53 AM   #21
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
What? lulz

NBA isn't just denying it, it's denying it by releasing more info to the public.

What new info has been released? The NBA made a statment denying the 2 reports that were published last week, using the same financial data they always have. From my knowledge no reporters covering the business aspects of the lockout (or anyone else for that matter but the representatives for the Players) has seen the data proving the figures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
Why should the media get full access to the books? Why is even remotely necessary? Do you think they care about what you think?
And please Bad faith? Sued? lol NFL? NBA teams had no obligation whatsoever to show the books to the players.

The media doesn't have to have full access, but when the info that is accessible to them doesn't add up to the claims the Owners have made for the last year and some change it makes the owners look like liars who have been trying to doctor numbers. They are aware of that, and thats why they are releasing responses to the Deadspin and ESPN articles that disputed their financial date.

And trust me the Owners are gravely aware of the consequences of negotiations in bad faith. The whole reason they gave the players access to the books was because some courts have ruled that when an Employer doesn't do that they lose a legal challenge for bad faith negotiations >>> http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...ive+bargaining.

Seeing that the only reason momentum started in the NFL labor dispute was when the Players got a legal win, I can guarantee you the NBA players will pursue the same route if they can't get progress at the negotiating table.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Because thats all the public has to go on. The media has made requests to have more access to the Owner's books and so far they've been denied.

Right now the NBA is just denying these claims to avoid a PR crisis, but still not releasing more info to the public at large.



You realize that if the Owners hadn't opened their accounting books they would have bad negotiating in bad faith and lost the case if sued right?

Contract disputes always involve exchanging of financial data with the 2 sides disagreeing over what constitutes figures that should be included in basketball revenue and the other side saying it doesn't count. Just because one side asks for more info doesn't mean they agree, this could very well just be the Players searching for ammo to help them out later.
well, first, they have no reason to open their finances to the public or the media. that is ****ing stupid.


also, tell the NFL you have to disclose all your financial data. Ha, you are insane thinking that they are going to get them on not negotiating in good faith. pipedream
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Forbes has been correctly valuing businesses for quite a long time now. It's what they are actually known for. It's not like they are some left wing, progressive, pro union site. They are about as pro business, capitalist as you can get.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:43 PM   #24
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Preach. Owners simply exploiting the labor of the athletes. If the players wanted to they could all just start their own league. The NBA, at it's most fundamental core is a 5 on 5 basketball game played by two 12 man rosters. The word "owner" doesn't exist in any basketball handbook and has nothing to do with the game itself.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
How come the NBA didn't dispute any of the claims that the value of the franchises was healthy and that they had been sold for a considerable profit?
I don't think most small market franchises were sold at a profit now. The $25M "Loss on Player Contract" from the deadspin article was taken off by deadspin at it actually pertains to a buyout of a player. Makes complete sense.

I don't see a line item related to the amortization of the purchase price of the team in the Nets statement of operations. If it was that material it should've had a separate line item on its own.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Forbes has been correctly valuing businesses for quite a long time now. It's what they are actually known for. It's not like they are some left wing, progressive, pro union site. They are about as pro business, capitalist as you can get.
the point is, those are not the numbers the league, the union and any arbitrators are working with, so they're useless and will have no real relevance to the negotiations of the cba.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
How come the NBA didn't dispute any of the claims that the value of the franchises was healthy and that they had been sold for a considerable profit?
but that profit isnt in the league. thats profits to FORMER team owners. has nothing to do with yearly operating costs or revenues, unless you want to count team purchase as a cost (which they dont).
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
Preach. Owners simply exploiting the labor of the athletes. If the players wanted to they could all just start their own league. The NBA, at it's most fundamental core is a 5 on 5 basketball game played by two 12 man rosters. The word "owner" doesn't exist in any basketball handbook and has nothing to do with the game itself.
I'd like to see them do that. Let's see if they could raise the capital necessary to run a team. Expenses like:

1. Lease of arena and practice facilities
2. Plane and hotel expenses
3. Scouting, training, player development

Sure the word owner doesn't exist in any basketball handbook too. Same goes for players earning an average of $5M a year. Or getting primetime TV deals. Shoe deals and such.

Hate them as you like, but its because of the owners that we could even watch these players in the first place.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
What new info has been released? The NBA made a statment denying the 2 reports that were published last week, using the same financial data they always have. From my knowledge no reporters covering the business aspects of the lockout (or anyone else for that matter but the representatives for the Players) has seen the data proving the figures.
So no new info by the NBA on that statements? They just said 3 words, "We deny it!"
The players have seen the numbers, period. Not even the players are entitle to see the "data proving the numbers", so lol at anyone else being entitle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
The media doesn't have to have full access, but when the info that is accessible to them doesn't add up to the claims the Owners have made for the last year and some change it makes the owners look like liars who have been trying to doctor numbers. They are aware of that, and thats why they are releasing responses to the Deadspin and ESPN articles that disputed their financial date.
They aren't aware of anything, NBA are correcting dumbasses that don't know how to look at a financial sheet of paper. Nice rant with ZERO value, since deadspin agreed with NBA and corrected their article.
And NBA is using LEGAL accounting USED BY EVERYONE. It's again stated clearly on the last NBA statement, and for someone who's crying for new information you seem pretty ignorant about the known information.
How about the Union instead of just saying they don't agree on the numbers, specify why and come forward with the data? "if we took this and that, it's less then 300$ millions, why please indulge us, show us the numbers. "So yes, we feel there is more than adequate basis for questioning their projections and financials," yep i'm 100% educated about the numbers now. Why is the burden of proving their pov only on the Owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
And trust me the Owners are gravely aware of the consequences of negotiations in bad faith. The whole reason they gave the players access to the books was because some courts have ruled that when an Employer doesn't do that they lose a legal challenge for bad faith negotiations >>> http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...ive+bargaining.
So why hasn't NFL? Aren't they "Gravely aware"? And nowhere in that article is said what you claim. Generalizing much from a 1952 dispute? How about the one from 1992 " the court held that an employer was not required to disclose financial information "

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Seeing that the only reason momentum started in the NFL labor dispute was when the Players got a legal win, I can guarantee you the NBA players will pursue the same route if they can't get progress at the negotiating table.
First no win, it's still on court, and the last ruling was in favor of the owners. Second it as nothing to do with showing the books, but with the legality of locking out players, so nice try to spin it but fail.

I'm tired, i quit. Thank god soccer off-season it's just one month and there are zero chance of lockouts.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
Preach. Owners simply exploiting the labor of the athletes. If the players wanted to they could all just start their own league. The NBA, at it's most fundamental core is a 5 on 5 basketball game played by two 12 man rosters. The word "owner" doesn't exist in any basketball handbook and has nothing to do with the game itself.
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