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Old 07-06-2011, 02:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by gasolina
I don't think most small market franchises were sold at a profit now. The $25M "Loss on Player Contract" from the deadspin article was taken off by deadspin at it actually pertains to a buyout of a player. Makes complete sense.

I don't see a line item related to the amortization of the purchase price of the team in the Nets statement of operations. If it was that material it should've had a separate line item on its own.

They have been including depreciation and amortization in all their numbers that they have shared with the union. That is why the union is protesting their numbers.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
They have been including depreciation and amortization in all their numbers that they have shared with the union. That is why the union is protesting their numbers.
have you actually read the nba's response? Its worth looking at, even if you have your mind made up.

Quote:
We do not include purchase price amortization from when a team is sold or under any circumstances in any of our reported losses. Put simply, none of the league losses are related to team purchase or sale accounting.

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=7944#ixzz1RLksVxE5
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by boozehound
have you actually read the nba's response? Its worth looking at, even if you have your mind made up.

What did you expect the league to say? You think they were just gonna say "ok you got us"?
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

I think the players union has agreed that restructuring needs to take place, and we'd be hard pressed to find fans knowledgeable about the situation who think the current conditions are sustainable. I think the problem is that the owners have pretty much placed the bulk of the blame on the players, and as a result, are seeking to place the bulk of the concessions on the players as well. They've waged a subtle media campaign to make the players union seem greedy and unreasonable. The problem is that there aren't many willing to buy what they're selling.

There is a great deal of complexity in all of this. The players are by all means going to have to concede some things, but what the owners have been asking for (I really hope some of the numbers we've seen are just preliminary bargaining numbers) are quite ridiculous.

What I suspect is that owners want to be inoculated from their bad deals and moves. They want to be able to make mistakes, overpay players, trade away players that bring in revenue, and still be assured a profit. A better revenue sharing model certainly needs to be put in place, but I don't think the changes should be so extreme as to help owners and GMs to be reckless with impunity.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
What did you expect the league to say? You think they were just gonna say "ok you got us"?
seeing how these are audited financial documents that are also assessed by several branches of the US govt, yeah, I think you should takes the league's reply at its word.

Its rare they would even respond to this type of shit. Look, if the union wants to come out and say they are lying about it not-profiting, they have a vaild point, as they have access to the actual financial data. They havent. Now, they dispute the accounting of some items that they say magnify the losses, but they dont deny the league has been losing money.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
They have been including depreciation and amortization in all their numbers that they have shared with the union. That is why the union is protesting their numbers.

Under the owners' accounting practices, would players like Rose and Durant be considered depreciating assets? What about other young up and coming stars?
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:32 PM   #37
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by MaxFly
I think the players union has agreed that restructuring needs to take place, and we'd be hard pressed to find fans knowledgeable about the situation who think the current conditions are sustainable. I think the problem is that the owners have pretty much placed the bulk of the blame on the players, and as a result, are seeking to place the bulk of the concessions on the players as well. They've waged a subtle media campaign to make the players union seem greedy and unreasonable. The problem is that there aren't many willing to buy what they're selling.

There is a great deal of complexity in all of this. The players are by all means going to have to concede some things, but what the owners have been asking for (I really hope some of the numbers we've seen are just preliminary bargaining numbers) are quite ridiculous.

What I suspect is that owners want to be inoculated from their bad deals and moves. They want to be able to make mistakes, overpay players, trade away players that bring in revenue, and still be assured a profit. A better revenue sharing model certainly needs to be put in place, but I don't think the changes should be so extreme as to help owners and GMs to be reckless with impunity.
well, again. You are running a business. 61%+ of all your operating costs are salary. The other 38%+ are a myriad of fundamental components of running a stadium, etc. Is there some trimming there? Sure, there probably is, but the end result would still be negligible compared to the 2/3rds of your operating costs being salary. Of course you try and cut those salary figures to restructure the earning potential of the league.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
seeing how these are audited financial documents that are also assessed by several branches of the US govt, yeah, I think you should takes the league's reply at its word.

Its rare they would even respond to this type of shit. Look, if the union wants to come out and say they are lying about it not-profiting, they have a vaild point, as they have access to the actual financial data. They havent. Now, they dispute the accounting of some items that they say magnify the losses, but they dont deny the league has been losing money.

What do you mean the Players haven't disputed the accounting procedures and the fact that the league is exaggerating their lost numbers? They have. Billy Hunter and the NBPA have done that every step of the way.

Once again here's an ESPN article from March 21 when Hunter disputes the loss numbers that Stern and the NBA claim >>>>> >>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6243850

Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN
The NBPA contends the reality is more complex than is expressed in those documents. Hunter questioned some accounting procedures on what constitutes operating losses, and pointed out that, in many markets, team owners also earn revenue from also owning local TV networks that carry the teams' games. He also said owning an NBA team comes with a high profile that helps owners' other businesses.

Hunter also noted that, with higher TV ratings and the recent sale of the Golden State Warriors for a reported $450 million, the league is doing well.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
What do you mean the Players haven't disputed the accounting procedures and the fact that the league is exaggerating their lost numbers? They have. Billy Hunter and the NBPA have done that every step of the way.

Once again here's an ESPN article from March 21 when Hunter disputes the loss numbers that Stern and the NBA claim >>>>> >>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6243850
read again. This article in discussion is claiming PROFIT. neither the union or the league is claiming there arent real losses, they are bickering about accounting practices that magnify the loss.


thats the point. This article isnt based on any real numbers that anyone is using in negotiation, so any conclusion is purely speculative.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
read again. This article in discussion is claiming PROFIT. neither the union or the league is claiming there arent real losses, they are bickering about accounting practices that magnify the loss.


thats the point. This article isnt based on any real numbers that anyone is using in negotiation, so any conclusion is purely speculative.

First off again you are wrong. While it is true that the NBPA claims that losses have been magnified, Hunter and the NBPA have also said that 1) overall the NBA is making money, and 2) that only a few teams (7 or 8 if I'm correct) are losing relatively small sums of money compared to what the Owners allege, and which they claim could be recouped through increased revenue sharing.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:20 PM   #41
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

The only thing I find worth mentioning in the March 21 ESPN article was the possible revenue hidden by the teams by grant lower priced contracts to related party tv networks.

Again, that's assuming the tv network, and the team, are in cahoots.

Also, wouldn't other TV networks be crying foul if this happens?

I just think it would be the grandest job pulled of by the teams to continually overstate their expenses / reduce their income year after year at the risk of getting penalized by the IRS and SEC just to be able to present to their players that they're losing money for a collective bargaining negotiation in 6 years time.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:29 PM   #42
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

What it boils down to is do you believe Stern or do you believe every other independent source which is saying the league is fundamentally healthy.

I think the people who side with Stern have some sort of latent hatred for the players which may or may not be race based, and would love nothing more than to see them taken down a notch. From what I have seen so far the players seem to be willing to negotiate and make concessions. The owners seem to want to completely blow everything up and make sure their risk is completely shared with the players but not be willing to share in the profits realized with the future sale of the franchise.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #43
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

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Originally Posted by boozehound
well, first, they have no reason to open their finances to the public or the media. that is ****ing stupid.


also, tell the NFL you have to disclose all your financial data. Ha, you are insane thinking that they are going to get them on not negotiating in good faith. pipedream
You're wasting your time. 2Letters is strictly pro player and is oblivious to the fact the the Players Association could possibly be stretching the truth themselves. He write articles blasting the owners once a week

As for the NBA's response they were just clearing up some numbers that the Forbes magazine article quoted had wrong.

It's funny how some people are so tuned into one side or the other in this lockout and overlook it's a bargaining process. That both sides ask for outrageous things to begin with and then work towards the center. There is no right or wrong in all this just two sides doing what they have done time and time again, nothing to get worked up over.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:15 PM   #44
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

Good for Forbes, the New York Times, amd ESPN for all calling the owners' and Stern's lies out.

FLUSH THEM ALL OUT FROM THE SHADOWS !!!
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: NYTIMES reporting that nba crying foul over financial crisis

I'll believe Forbes, who has nothing to gain or lose in this matter, over any numbers supplied by the owners or players.



It's hilarious the owners are even trying to cut salaries after the most popular NBA season in over a decade.
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