Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-22-2011, 08:02 PM   #1
FourthTenor
Banned
 
FourthTenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,845
FourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation here
Default If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Championship teams are always far more about the team than any one player. Look at the Bulls records during Jordan's retirement. Still a very good team. And if it had been Pippen who retired for two years, they would almost assuredly have not won a title during those years as was the case when Jordan was out.

A couple years ago I remember the Lakers started the season without Pau Gasol and were like 15-2, and then had a mid-season stretch without Kobe and went somethin like 5-1 but won the title. Every championship team is LOADED. Ok? Period.

So tell me, if Jordan had been drafted to a crap franchise who never surrounded him with talent, then what? Say he doesnt win titles. Is he suddenly not in the conversation with Magic and Bird and Kareem and Shaq etc.? Even if he possessed all the same skills, same work ethic, same stats, same intensity etc. but never reached the summit because there were always better TEAMS in the way of his TEAM?

It is an indisputable fact that TEAMS win championships, yet practically every
brainless fool on this site applies the "Tony Korheiser Method of Anti-Analysis" and just bleet the word "rings" any time someone asks them to make a comparison. Kornheiser doesnt even watch sports any more, so he has no arguments to make. He has absolutely nothing to contribute to a discussion. So every single argument just comes down to "rings" because thats something you can just quickly quantify and if someone disputes it just say "you play to win the game" and basically make a stubborn ass of yourself while sticking to your guns.

That seems to be what people here do. I rarely see comparisons of players in terms of their games and skills and whatnot, but rather just a listing of what their teams did or didnt do?

Yeah, guess what? This is another thread where I'm calling 99% of you retarded. Enjoy.
FourthTenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:06 PM   #2
dunksby
ISH's Scribbler
 
dunksby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,185
dunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Somebody gif his ass up.
dunksby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:07 PM   #3
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,838
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

If he had no titles then he'd just be the guard version of Karl Malone just with less rape, more gambling and more punching of teammates.

Still a horrible post though
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:07 PM   #4
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,838
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
Somebody gif his ass up.

I would but I'm out of bandwidth. I've already used it all on his other posts
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:10 PM   #5
FourthTenor
Banned
 
FourthTenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,845
FourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. I'm So Rad
If he had no titles then he'd just be the guard version of Karl Malone just with less rape, more gambling and more punching of teammates.

Still a horrible post though


It's honestly like you're PROUD to not have a brain. It's like you flaunt it, strut around showing off how stupid you can be.

And you're not alone.

I'll just never understand it.
FourthTenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:11 PM   #6
dunksby
ISH's Scribbler
 
dunksby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,185
dunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation heredunksby has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

[IMG]http://i35.tinypic.com/*******.gif[/IMG]
dunksby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:13 PM   #7
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,838
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourthTenor
It's honestly like you're PROUD to not have a brain. It's like you flaunt it, strut around showing off how stupid you can be.

And you're not alone.

I'll just never understand it.

Who peed in your cheerios?

We know that teams win championships, not individuals. Congratulations for pointing out the obvious oh wise FourthTenor
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:16 PM   #8
FourthTenor
Banned
 
FourthTenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,845
FourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. I'm So Rad
We know that teams win championships, not individuals.

No, you dont, and most people here dont.

In every thread I see "this guys better than that guy cuz he got a ring"

or

"if so and so gets a ring then he'll be top ___ all time"

It's completely invalid logic and means nothing. Soon I will actually make a running list of retards who do it and bump it every time there's a new addition.
FourthTenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:23 PM   #9
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,838
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourthTenor
No, you dont, and most people here dont.

In every thread I see "this guys better than that guy cuz he got a ring"

or

"if so and so gets a ring then he'll be top ___ all time"

It's completely invalid logic and means nothing. Soon I will actually make a running list of retards who do it and bump it every time there's a new addition.

So now you tell me I don't know

Even though I've never used rings as an argument as 1 player being better than the next.

We get it, you're tired of people saying Kobe is better than LeBron because of rings. You're tired of Kobe being regarded as highly as he is by some because of his accomplishments in regards to championships.

It's just funny you try and make these posts to make it seem like you have some uncanny intelligence when you're just a run of the mill troll that points out the obvious when not trolling.
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:25 PM   #10
Javat_90
Banned
 
Javat_90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 1,629
Javat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputation
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

OP, people are allowed to disagree with you. That doesnt automaticly make them retards, you dont have the universal truth about everything.

With this said, I kinda agree with what you said in your post. Because basketball is a team sport first, always will be. And those who mainly judge players because of "how much rings" they won...etc are simply doing everything wrong. The thing is, the ring factor is important to use it, but putting everything in context.

Take Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett for example. Both arguably have very similar primes in terms of basketball talent, both share a lot of traits: defense, team-ball, efficient offense, good passing...etc. But there has to be some factor we can use to rank them properly, well this is the ring factor. What im trying to say is that people should not focus everything on rings, but the ring factor is still a valid one if used in the proper context.

Another thing ive noticed coming from homers is that they will downgrade every teammate of their beloved superstar just to hype his balls. Like many fake Lakers fans clowning Gasol to hype up Kobe Bryant. Or many fake Bulls fans clowning Scottie Pippen to hype up Jordan.

That shit just gets on my nerves.
Javat_90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:27 PM   #11
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,838
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javat_90
OP, people are allowed to disagree with you. That doesnt automaticly make them retards, you dont have the universal truth about everything.

With this said, I kinda agree with what you said in your post. Because basketball is a team sport first, always will be. And those who mainly judge players because of "how much rings" they won...etc are simply doing everything wrong. The thing is, the ring factor is important to use it, but putting everything in context.

Take Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett for example. Both arguably have very similar primes in terms of basketball talent, both share a lot of traits: defense, team-ball, efficient offense, good passing...etc. But there has to be some factor we can use to rank them properly, well this is the ring factor. What im trying to say is that people should not focus everything on rings, but the ring factor is still a valid one if used in the proper context.

Another thing ive noticed coming from homers is that they will downgrade every teammate of their beloved superstar just to hype his balls. Like many fake Lakers fans clowning Gasol to hype up Kobe Bryant. Or many fake Bulls fans clowning Scottie Pippen to hype up Jordan.

That shit just gets on my nerves.

This, and people did the same thing to LeBron's teammates in Cleveland.

Also, sometimes people try to hype up teammates to lessen a player. Some haters do this to Kobe by saying he gets carried and some people try to use the Bulls winning over 50 games the season after MJ retired as evidence of him not being great.
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:30 PM   #12
FourthTenor
Banned
 
FourthTenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,845
FourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation hereFourthTenor has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javat_90
Take Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett for example. Both arguably have very similar primes in terms of basketball talent, both share a lot of traits: defense, team-ball, efficient offense, good passing...etc. But there has to be some factor we can use to rank them properly, well this is the ring factor. What im trying to say is that people should not focus everything on rings, but the ring factor is still a valid one if used in the proper context.

I still don't see what you think the justification is for this.

You could compare the ways in which Duncan and Garnett score, because they both score. You can compare their efficiency, free throw shooting, usage rate etc. because its strictly an apples-to-apples comparison.

You can compare their rebounding because they both rebound. You can compare their passing because they both pass. Defense, minutes per game, etc.

But they didnt have the same coach. They didnt have the same teammates. They didnt play on teams with equal payrolls. These things are huge factors in playoff success.

So why would you even bring that up if you're comparing them? It's nothing they can control and its no measure of them as players. It's just an excuse for people who are too lazy or too incompetent to compare them in the aforementioned ways.

There's literally no place for it. Even in a sport like basketball the team FAR outweighs the individual. History proves it. So leave the team achievements out. If you cant make a comparison based on the players themselves, then just excuse yourself from the argument. It's not that hard. Ya know?
FourthTenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:37 PM   #13
Javat_90
Banned
 
Javat_90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 1,629
Javat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputationJavat_90 has a very bad reputation
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourthTenor
I still don't see what you think the justification is for this.

You could compare the ways in which Duncan and Garnett score, because they both score. You can compare their efficiency, free throw shooting, usage rate etc. because its strictly an apples-to-apples comparison.

You can compare their rebounding because they both rebound. You can compare their passing because they both pass. Defense, minutes per game, etc.

But they didnt have the same coach. They didnt have the same teammates. They didnt play on teams with equal payrolls. These things are huge factors in playoff success.

So why would you even bring that up if you're comparing them? It's nothing they can control and its no measure of them as players. It's just an excuse for people who are too lazy or too incompetent to compare them in the aforementioned ways.

There's literally no place for it. Even in a sport like basketball the team FAR outweighs the individual. History proves it. So leave the team achievements out. If you cant make a comparison based on the players themselves, then just excuse yourself from the argument. It's not that hard. Ya know?

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson for example. Both great players who played in great teams. Both are very similar players (minus the few exceptions, Bird was a better shooter and Magic a better passer, they are a lot more similar than what people think). So how do you rank those guys?

Wouldnt you use the ring factor in this case? They went head-to-head 3 times, and Magic won 2 times. Both had their primes in the 80s, but Magic played in 7 NBA Finals (im not going to count 1991 since Bird was already retired) and won 5. On the other hand, Bird played in 5 NBA Finals and won 3.

Considering they are both very similar players in terms of talent, and had similar talent surrounding them, wouldnt you rank Magic ahead of Bird because of the rings factor?
Javat_90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:39 PM   #14
chazzy
3-time NBA All-Star
 
chazzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: LA
Posts: 10,407
chazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablechazzy is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Just so you'll stop repeating yourself in every thread...

When people make their all time GREATEST player rankings, it's based on a number of different things including peak/prime play, longevity, accomplishments etc. Kobe has 5 rings, but because his peak/prime play wasn't as good as the other top 9 greats, he's generally ranked below players with less rings for example. Lebron has all time great talent, arguably top 10 in terms of just prime play, but isn't ranked top 10 in an all time greatest players list because of the lack of accomplishments that go along with it. Yes, it's not fair to players who weren't surrounded with sufficient talent for their careers to win multiple titles the way other players with similar individual talent have, but at the same time we can't play the what if game with everyone. Championships are never given, and those who are able to lead their teams to titles deserve credit, regardless of whether other players may or may not have been able to achieve the same with their supporting cast.

Basically, you're confusing all time greatest players lists with all time prime play lists. When people rank Magic over Shaq, it doesn't necessarily mean his impact on the court was greater - his overall career accomplishments along coupled with his individual play arguably trumps what Shaq did in his career. There's been plenty of threads that rank players based on just their impact on the floor; people know the difference.
chazzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 08:46 PM   #15
G.O.A.T
Scott Hastings Fan
 
G.O.A.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 5,567
G.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterG.O.A.T is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: If Michael Jordan played for the Nuggets or Hornets he'd have no titles... then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourthTenor
Championship teams are always far more about the team than any one player.

Critical question...

Then why have the same eleven players won 45 of the last 60 NBA Championships?
G.O.A.T is online now   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy