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Old 07-28-2011, 04:25 PM   #16
Butters
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

I would try to keep him.They will just be that much better.It's not a knock on him that his team won,it just means they will be even better next year if they have him.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by insidehoops
Obviously they just managed to win a championship without him, but still, they're better with him than without him, aren't they?

Of course, the size of his contract is a huge factor.

Here's Butler declaring that he hopes to stick with Dallas:

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8077

Butler is a very good player, but now that they got Rudy Fernandez and since they need to re-sign Chandler, he is gone.

He would be perfect for the Hawks at small forward.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:30 PM   #18
Eric Cartman
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

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Originally Posted by hawkfan
Butler is a very good player, but now that they got Rudy Fernandez and since they need to re-sign Chandler, he is gone.

He would be perfect for the Hawks at small forward.

Don't you guys have Marvin & J.Smith? Kinda crowded if you ask me.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Don't you guys have Marvin & J.Smith? Kinda crowded if you ask me.

We can sign Butler and then trade Marvin Williams to Detroit for Jason Maxiall, giving the Hawks another banger and rebounder. Maxiall doesn't have a lot of height, but he is strong, can rebound. He could help out inside off the bench.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

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Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Who knows if they win it all if he did play. With him in, would JJ have the impact he did? Would Terry have the impact he did? Would all the rolw players play above their normal game if he did? I dont think the chemistry would have been what it was if he were in the lineup. He would have been pulling 13-15 shots a game and clearly the role players would not have stepped up like they did.

So to answer the question, he is a good player but not a high priority. Money should be spent elsewhere esp with the acquisition of Fernandez.

Plus 1. They need to add some youth to the bench.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

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Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Who knows if they win it all if he did play. With him in, would JJ have the impact he did? Would Terry have the impact he did? Would all the rolw players play above their normal game if he did? I dont think the chemistry would have been what it was if he were in the lineup. He would have been pulling 13-15 shots a game and clearly the role players would not have stepped up like they did.

So to answer the question, he is a good player but not a high priority. Money should be spent elsewhere esp with the acquisition of Fernandez.

Things came together extremely well for the Mavs last season, but that doesn't mean it will happen again. Butler is still technically their second best player and they need to do everything within the realm of reason to retain him.

This is a championship team, they should do whatever they can to keep as much 'right now' value on the team as possible. If next season it's clearly not working as well with Butler in the lineup (last season they had their best reg season play with both Butler and Dirk though) and Butler is signed to a market-value contract? They can always turn him into something else via trades. But at least they did not let the value that Butler represents walk out of the door for free.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

I know they won without him, but I think he would have helped a lot had he been healthy. Really too much of the scoring burden of that team is on Dirk. He rose up to meet the challenge but life was very difficult for him.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Things came together extremely well for the Mavs last season, but that doesn't mean it will happen again. Butler is still technically their second best player and they need to do everything within the realm of reason to retain him.

This is a championship team, they should do whatever they can to keep as much 'right now' value on the team as possible. If next season it's clearly not working as well with Butler in the lineup (last season they had their best reg season play with both Butler and Dirk though) and Butler is signed to a market-value contract? They can always turn him into something else via trades. But at least they did not let the value that Butler represents walk out of the door for free.

I wouldnt be opposed for the Mavs to sign him and at a good price, they should. But with the coming CBA and higher priorities in Chandler and JJ, I think it probably wont even be possible to sign him. Basically my point is that they dont need to sign him. He should be their lowest priority. I think even though he was injured, he will still hold value on the market.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

I really don't get why people are so high on him...at least as a Dallas Maverick in their offense. Before he went down he frankly was not having a particularly stellar season. He was averaging a career low in assist and more turnovers then assist and his efficiency (.523%ts) was pretty bad. If were just going by what he brought to the table in the games he did play this season...he was no loss at all. He certainly wasn't a good 2nd option in the games he did play in this past season. No matter what anyone else thinks...I still think he was a product of the Wizards system. He'll never be close to as good as he was on the Wizards just like Larry Hughes wasn't.

Last edited by Smoke117 : 07-29-2011 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

Obviously they can do without him.

The shots he woulda put up went to Terry/Barea/Peja instead and they did more with them than he would have.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:13 PM   #26
Jasper
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paperstreet
rumor has it the mavs want to go hard after deron williams in 2012.... and it might actually be possible after kidd retires and if chandler is signed for a reasonable amount.

as a mavs fan i'd give him a 1 year easily movable incentive laden deal for 6-7 mil. a long contract is hard to ask for.

but dont underestimate the so-called championship hangover, i could see caron as a catalyst to keep the mavs focused. a sort of "win another chip for caron" mantra.
nice

It really comes down to the players union and owners and how it hard caps/ flex caps out.
But chandler is priority #1
Butler is #2.

Butler is just as important to the Mav's defense as well as offense , because he is a natural slasher, and fast break specialist, on filling the lane and baseline pull up.
Mav's would be better off dumping a few of their contracts to keep these two guys , simply because they bring legit playoff worthyness.

------------------
If the hard cap occurs , it is quite possible we will see a different looking NBA.
Instead of some teams carrying 2-4 centers , we maybe looking at 1 center per team ,and a Paul Melkesky type players riding the bench for filler minutes/
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

You know the NBA's locked out when Jeff's starting half the damn threads.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

tyson is more important
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paperstreet
but dont underestimate the so-called championship hangover, i could see caron as a catalyst to keep the mavs focused. a sort of "win another chip for caron" mantra.

This was exactly what I was thinking. Our swingmen positions are filled with guys with questionable attitudes (Terry/Marion/Barea/Stevenson). I have serious doubts on how hungry they'll be the next time. On the other hand Caron will be hungrier than ever. He is the guy that has something to prove, and he can get everyone more focused as you mentioned. I like your one year contract idea, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Who knows if they win it all if he did play. With him in, would JJ have the impact he did? Would Terry have the impact he did? Would all the rolw players play above their normal game if he did? I dont think the chemistry would have been what it was if he were in the lineup. He would have been pulling 13-15 shots a game and clearly the role players would not have stepped up like they did.

So to answer the question, he is a good player but not a high priority. Money should be spent elsewhere esp with the acquisition of Fernandez.

Fernandez definitely is a great acquisition, but if not for him, Butler definitely should have been kept. I completely disagree with Caron being negative for team chemistry by any means. Of course when you win the title, one assumes things couldn't have been better. But Caron is a smart guy who knows his role, and is OK with taking a step back when others are hot. He is much more important then JJ. As good as JJ was in the last 2 games of Finals, people forget that he was non-existent in the first games. Plus JJ is a huge defensive liability. I respect your opinion, but I don't think JJ should be a priority over Caron. To me keeping Caron should have been priority #2 after keeping Tyson. But maybe getting Rudy has changed it.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: How important is Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks?

If healthy Caron is probably the 3rd most important player on the Mavs.

1. Dirk
2. Chandler
3. Butler

Who knows what would have happened with him this year, but going forward the Mavs are without a doubt better team with Butler on the roster.

Of the 3 big free agents we have, I think Chandler is the most important, then Butler, and lastly Barea.

Now that we signed Fernandez, I feel like Butler is even more critical. We need a tough wing player that can defend and board. Stevenson will likely be gone because there just simply isn't room for him now. Also, with Butler back, Marion could take on a lesser role and rest. He will really need that over the course of an 82 game schedule.

If the Mavs bring back Chandler and Butler...and remain healthy. They have about as good of a chance as any team in the west to make the finals.
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