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Old 07-31-2011, 04:40 PM   #1
ThaSwagg3r
 
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Default Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

It is funny if you think about this.

Before the 2008-2009 season, LeBron's biggest weakness was his inability to shoot jump shots. He was just an inconsistent jump shooter and his jump shot would be exposed every season during the playoffs. Every time LeBron got eliminated, people would blame his inability to shoot jumpers consistently as a reason for why he fell short. I know I was one of those people.

After the 2008-2009 season, LeBron's biggest weakness has been his attitude, mindset, and mentality. In the 2010 playoffs, he quit in Game 5 in the Celtics series and then he recorded the most empty and meaningless triple-double of his life in that game 6 elimination game. In the 2011 finals, he had one of the most inexplicable playoff series of his career. He disappeared in the 2011 finals and he was pretty much non-existent in that entire series after Game 1. If you look at the box score you would think that this guy played well, but if you watched the games and the series you would know that the guy was about as non-existent as it gets. His mentality, attitude, and mindset was questioned again just like it was after the 2010 playoffs.

The funny thing is before the 2008-2009 season, people never questioned his mindset, mentality, or his attitude, if anything people praised his mentality for being such a young player and understanding the game so well and leading his team this far despite playing with a bunch of scrubs. LeBron would put up fight in elimination games before the 2008-2009 season, i.e. he wouldn't "check-out" like he started doing after the 2008-2009 season.

During the 2008-2009 season and afterwards, LeBron had finally gotten the consistent jumper that was his weakness in the past 4-5 years. The problem is that now his mentality has become an issue and a weakness for him. He started to "check-out" of games like the entire 2011 NBA finals and the 2010 playoffs against the Celtics. LeBron stopped putting up a fight in those big playoffs games and quit when his team was in turmoil.

For LeBron in 2008-2009, you really couldn't question anything about him. He had a consistent jumper, he didn't have a weak mindset and wouldn't quit or give up on his team was his team was in turmoil, he would fight till the end just like he did in the 09 ECF against the Magic. LeBron literally had no weaknesses that season. During that season you could blame his failures on his teammates because his team was just over matched by the Orlando Magic in the ECF.

It reminds me of Karl Malone. When Karl first came into the league he could run like a deer but he couldn't pass to save his life. When Karl finally learned how to pass, he was no longer able to run the floor like a deer anymore.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

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Old 07-31-2011, 05:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Did read and I kinda agree tho.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

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Old 07-31-2011, 05:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch

I don't get it... Is it supposed to be funny and cool to not have the attention span to read a few paragraphs?
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Posted this on another forum:

I really wonder what's up with Lebron, because It's completely inexplicable to me that he'd be so invested in winning through the first three rounds only to check out in the Finals. Why would he bother playing like he did in the first three rounds if he didn't actually care about winning that much?

Even though he didn't actually play that well, you couldn't question his dedication to winning and to his teammates after the Bulls series. Playing 45 minutes a game, guarding the MVP and taking over in crunch time, diving after loose balls like it was his child in danger and closing out the fifth game with some huge shots (including the game winning jumper and blocking the potential game tying three) doesn't sound like a guy who isn't invested in winning. Why he would check out and stop caring in the Finals is inexplicable.

On a side note, while Lebron played with intensity and dedication up until the Finals, he was never actually playing that well. The whole "Lebron's playing the best ball of his career!" talk after the Bulls series was laughable to me - he literally didn't have a single game in his 2011 playoff run that would've been considered average in his 2009 run. His loss of athleticism forced him to be completely reliant on his jumper, and if that wasn't falling he was ineffective as a scorer. He was only getting 5 shots a game at the rim in the playoffs (and "only" making 68% of them).

He really wasn't even close to matching his level of play from the previous two years. He was playing much, MUCH better ball in the '09 and '10 playoffs (up until game 4 of the Boston series) than he was this year, but the media was blinded by the Ws. Shows how much winning effects the perception of a player.

Hopefully this post made sense, I'm running on 3 hours of sleep and a lot of coffee right now.
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

I'm not really sure what happened to Lebron and his competitive drive this year in the Finals, but I'm pretty sure he just got tired of carrying his incompetent Cavs team and inept coach last year. This and of course those Delonte rumours probably didn't help one bit, multiplied by his elbow issues.
Now this year was generally a down year for Lebron - his role in the new team has changed, he looked slower than usual and didn't drive as much to the basket. Now people love to question his declining athleticism, but I don't buy it since he was getting up as high as ever on some dunks and I believe he was just experimenting and trying out his new and much improved perimeter game with better and more reliable jumpshot. And this game proved to be effective in the playoffs up untill that Dallas series, where he seemed to be mentally checked out and almost disinterested again. Was it simply pressure or some internal team issues I'm not sure, but he seemed like a different player compared to Bulls series for some reason. One thing I know is that a great player doesn't become a scrub overnight, so there must be something going on under the blanket there...
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
so there must be something going on under the blanket there...
Gender change, maybe ...

No way should such an elite superstar come up so short on the game's biggest stage.

And he's done it twice.

And yes, he had a severe decline in athleticism.

It wasn't merely toying with a new approach to the game, or trying something new.

He literally played the same way he always has ... dribbling out shot clocks, and dominating the ball (only in lesser extents for full games cause of Wade and Bosh) only now he couldn't drive around his opponent at will, he was forced to shoot long contested jumpers.

If a player keeps losing "focus" in big games and series ... I wouldn't be making excuses ... the common denominator is LeBron James.

Something is wired wrong in his head. That's the real answer.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

So basically LeBron James has not been the same since Delonte West was banging his slut of a mother?
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
Gender change, maybe ...

No way should such an elite superstar come up so short on the game's biggest stage.

And he's done it twice.

And yes, he had a severe decline in athleticism.

It wasn't merely toying with a new approach to the game, or trying something new.

He literally played the same way he always has ... dribbling out shot clocks, and dominating the ball (only in lesser extents for full games cause of Wade and Bosh) only now he couldn't drive around his opponent at will, he was forced to shoot long contested jumpers.

If a player keeps losing "focus" in big games and series ... I wouldn't be making excuses ... the common denominator is LeBron James.

Something is wired wrong in his head. That's the real answer.

you just don't get it...
Lebron never had a quick first step to blow by his defenders like smaller guys do. Even in his best days he relied on screens to free himself up and gather speed and momentum to the basket. And he was still as fast as ever this year in straight line, so spare me this athletic decline BS. He clearly played a different role this year and if you don't see it you probably don't know jack about basketball. He was basically a PG for Heat most of the time and was asked to bail out his teammates in crunch time against set defenses in half-court. He failed to do it without proper spacing and that's when all the talk about him declining started. There was still no stopping him if he managed to gather speed and drive to the basket.All he needs to do is to drop some weight and his first step will improve once again
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Are people really saying he choked in 2007?

And I still lol at people shitting on him for a finals he wasnt even supposed to be in remember?
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerGlove
Are people really saying he choked in 2007?

And I still lol at people shitting on him for a finals he wasnt even supposed to be in remember?
No, but his jump shot was exposed in the finals. He didn't really choke but he did receive criticisms for in his inability to knock down jumpers (I was one of the critics) since Bowen gave him all the space in the world.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
you just don't get it...
Lebron never had a quick first step to blow by his defenders like smaller guys do. Even in his best days he relied on screens to free himself up and gather speed and momentum to the basket. And he was still as fast as ever this year in straight line, so spare me this athletic decline BS. He clearly played a different role this year and if you don't see it you probably don't know jack about basketball. He was basically a PG for Heat most of the time and was asked to bail out his teammates in crunch time against set defenses in half-court. He failed to do it without proper spacing and that's when all the talk about him declining started. There was still no stopping him if he managed to gather speed and drive to the basket.All he needs to do is to drop some weight and his first step will improve once again

His first step was good enough to go by many SG's, and all SF/PF/C. He struggled to get by SF's this past year. Looked like something was wrong. I agree that it's the weight(or mentality) more than anything else though.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
Lebron never had a quick first step to blow by his defenders like smaller guys do.
Really? This is just ONE example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyKv5UznxU

Cause as late as 2010 he could still blow by people.

And you are the fan of LeBron? I know more than you.



LeBron James lost a significant amount of athleticism and explosiveness.

Other players in the league commented on it (Andre Iguodala) ... supposedly Heat players were ribbing him about it earlier in the year.

And knowledgable posters who hang off his nuts have even commented on it too (Indian Guy)

You're the only one who clearly doesn't get it.

LeBron was never THIS reliant on screens. I watched him last year blow by Kirk Hinrich (arguably one of the best on ball defenders in the league) not off the dribble, but off a triple threat rocker step.

Not only did he lose his explosiveness from stand still and off the dribble.

But he lost his amazing ability to absorb contact and finish strong.

This was all more than obvious.

A year ago THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLfq64Hz1wI

Would've been a monster poster.

Weight? Doubtful, he's not that much bigger than he was in 2010.

HGH? What's the deal?

Maybe it's just cause he's an 8 year vet w/ a lot of mileage and his athleticism has worn out.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:51 PM   #15
lefthook00
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Default Re: Looking at LeBron before 2009 and after 2009

Also notice the lack of super athletic chase down blocks this past season.
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