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Old 10-29-2011, 01:20 AM   #31
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

got all excited early in the day when it looked like a deal was likely to be worked out... made possible by huge progress on several issues if i understand right. fast forward to the end of the evening, when the deal fell through because players are still unwilling to go 50-50 with the owners. again, if i understand the situation right.

and yes, i understand that this is exactly where stern and co. were trying to lead this BRI issue. i understand that this was totally precalculated and premeditated. IMO david stern is a shark at what he does and a troglodyte in terms of character. but he does know the law, the principles of asset management, and what the climate of the times is. pretty important things for any responsible adult to know, actually.

but i have news for you, players: yes, the talent is what makes for the entertainment, but without the deep-pocket funding to establish the league / arenas / infrastructure and run everything else, there is no NBA and no basketball league where the average player salary is $5 million.

the reality is that we're still in a recession that is likely to be permanent, and the american dream is basically over for most folks, sad to say. meanwhile the average fan still has to pay fairly ridiculous money simply to take his friends / family out to a game and pay the parking and the snack fees. compare that to his father's / grandfather's time, when the averaqe athlete 'only' got paid like a doctor / lawyer, and going to a game didn't mean a significant financial sacrifice for the average family.

when you insist on making more than what a doctor or lawyer makes, that kind of raises a flag with me. i'd personally like to know why. what makes you so special when you can't point to sheer earning potential?

so if the players want to find work elsewhere then i say: go for it. go to europe and china if that's what works for you. or if you want to pool your money and make a new league, then go for that, also. more power to you. but don't give me this rubbish about how you're worth more than 50% of the income of a high-paying business. for one thing, you simply aren't any more. the economics changed, and that wasn't some ninja-stealth operation. it's reality.

AFAIK other athletes don't get that kind of 50-50 breakdown, except maybe in baseball. tennis players and most other pro sports don't even come within sniffing distance of a 50-50.

i'm not sure if the NBA players union understands this basic fact- that in business, those who dare to invest open themselves to the greatest risk of loss and the greatest potential to earn. by agreeing to work for the investors, you exchange a quantity of earning potential for job security. that's just investment and employment reality... the rules of the game that millions upon millions of people have staked their families and fortunes on, going back thousands of years.

the real issue i see is that NBA players as a whole are hooked on living the gravy train lifestyle and are statistically some of the worst (maybe even the absolute worst?) pro athletes in the world at saving their money for the future and spending wisely. by their own actions and intentions the union has shown that it doesn't give a crap about player pensions and doesn't give a crap about protecting young players from immature monetary decisions.

at any point along the line, with a little effort the NBAPA could have created a system whereby making it to the NBA would have basically meant being financially secure for life and ensuring the well-being of one's family for generations. but it would also have meant giving up some of the bling and the unsustainable lifestyle excesses.

as if it's better to have a yacht, mansion and a couple of caddies during your few athletic years, even if it meant losing 99% of that on average by age 40, with the entire future of your post-NBA career being completely up in the air... for most, without a college degree or even a body of work in which they could say they were useful experts in. (other than BB, of course)

no, what i see the body of players wanting instead of stability is a cash grab, plain and simple. they want to live the high life during their young adult years, come what may. and folks who aim for that are rarely willing to give up any of that lifestyle unless a gun is pointed at their heads. they will never admit to any of that, but that's the real reason IMO why the players don't want to go 50-50. that, and sheer pride.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
got all excited early in the day when it looked like a deal was likely to be worked out... made possible by huge progress on several issues if i understand right. fast forward to the end of the evening, when the deal fell through because players are still unwilling to go 50-50 with the owners. again, if i understand the situation right.

and yes, i understand that this is exactly where stern and co. were trying to lead this BRI issue. i understand that this was totally precalculated and premeditated. IMO david stern is a shark at what he does and a troglodyte in terms of character. but he does know the law, the principles of asset management, and what the climate of the times is. pretty important things for any responsible adult to know, actually.

but i have news for you, players: yes, the talent is what makes for the entertainment, but without the deep-pocket funding to establish the league / arenas / infrastructure and run everything else, there is no NBA and no basketball league where the average player salary is $5 million.

the reality is that we're still in a recession that is likely to be permanent, and the american dream is basically over for most folks, sad to say. meanwhile the average fan still has to pay fairly ridiculous money simply to take his friends / family out to a game and pay the parking and the snack fees. compare that to his father's / grandfather's time, when the averaqe athlete 'only' got paid like a doctor / lawyer, and going to a game didn't mean a significant financial sacrifice for the average family.

when you insist on making more than what a doctor or lawyer makes, that kind of raises a flag with me. i'd personally like to know why. what makes you so special when you can't point to sheer earning potential?

so if the players want to find work elsewhere then i say: go for it. go to europe and china if that's what works for you. or if you want to pool your money and make a new league, then go for that, also. more power to you. but don't give me this rubbish about how you're worth more than 50% of the income of a high-paying business. for one thing, you simply aren't any more. the economics changed, and that wasn't some ninja-stealth operation. it's reality.

AFAIK other athletes don't get that kind of 50-50 breakdown, except maybe in baseball. tennis players and most other pro sports don't even come within sniffing distance of a 50-50.

i'm not sure if the NBA players union understands this basic fact- that in business, those who dare to invest open themselves to the greatest risk of loss and the greatest potential to earn. by agreeing to work for the investors, you exchange a quantity of earning potential for job security. that's just investment and employment reality... the rules of the game that millions upon millions of people have staked their families and fortunes on, going back thousands of years.

the real issue i see is that NBA players as a whole are hooked on living the gravy train lifestyle and are statistically some of the worst (maybe even the absolute worst?) pro athletes in the world at saving their money for the future and spending wisely. by their own actions and intentions the union has shown that it doesn't give a crap about player pensions and doesn't give a crap about protecting young players from immature monetary decisions.

at any point along the line, with a little effort the NBAPA could have created a system whereby making it to the NBA would have basically meant being financially secure for life and ensuring the well-being of one's family for generations. but it would also have meant giving up some of the bling and the unsustainable lifestyle excesses.

as if it's better to have a yacht, mansion and a couple of caddies during your few athletic years, even if it meant losing 99% of that on average by age 40, with the entire future of your post-NBA career being completely up in the air... for most, without a college degree or even a body of work in which they could say they were useful experts in. (other than BB, of course)

no, what i see the body of players wanting instead of stability is a cash grab, plain and simple. they want to live the high life during their young adult years, come what may. and folks who aim for that are rarely willing to give up any of that lifestyle unless a gun is pointed at their heads. they will never admit to any of that, but that's the real reason IMO why the players don't want to go 50-50. that, and sheer pride.
Nice post, gigantes. Very good points. It's a shame... but lets hope for the best.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:35 AM   #33
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

thanks, NF93. and actually... things have loosened up a lot the last couple of days. looks like billy hunter is going down in flames and the players are rapidly shifting towards the 50-50 offer on the table. example article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu..._hunter_110111

if i'm not mistaken, most or all of december's games will be saved and we're looking at the end of the lockout very soon.

(knock on wood, of course)
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
thanks, NF93. and actually... things have loosened up a lot the last couple of days. looks like billy hunter is going down in flames and the players are rapidly shifting towards the 50-50 offer on the table. example article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu..._hunter_110111

if i'm not mistaken, most or all of december's games will be saved and we're looking at the end of the lockout very soon.

(knock on wood, of course)
No problem!
Awesome news btw. Definitely knock on wood!
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

IMO there's not a chance in hell this new decertification threat passes with the rank-and-file players. rather, it's the union's last gasp effort to fight back... mainly formulated by the 50 richest players or so.

and i'm not saying that decertification isn't the right strategic move for the union in a perfect world. but most players simply can't afford it in reality. for many of them, their lives would come to a screeching halt around the time that the checks stop coming, which is very soon.
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

i guess i won't be making any more predictions about the lockout ending. i really thought all signs and factors pointed to a resolution yesterday.

if fisher & hunter don't reverse themselves and agree to a deal by wednesday, they are pretty-much entering a lottery as i see it. the lottery is- either they somehow get decertification to work out, giving them a big burst of bargaining power, OR the union loses it's position, its best offer, and a lot of mid-range players get downright angry at the union.

common sense is not winning, here. for some reason i thought it would.

i guess i'm glad i have MMA. if basketball was still my main sport, i would be throwing this laptop out the window... watching it smash to bits on the street seven stories below. it's still pretty frustrating, though.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D12"Magic"
ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12/25!!
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nets fan 93
12/25!!
28 more days plus FA starts Dec. 9.
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D12"Magic"
28 more days plus FA starts Dec. 9.
Yes! I am equally excited about free agency. Not even from just for the Nets! Player movement is awesome!
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:04 PM   #41
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nets fan 93
Yes! I am equally excited about free agency. Not even from just for the Nets! Player movement is awesome!
Yep, should there be a FA Thread by the way?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D12"Magic"
Yep, should there be a FA Thread by the way?
Sure! Feel free to make one!
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