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Old 08-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

DKLaker is serious about getting a point guard..Bro we got a pg (DF) ...Now could we talk about Dwight Howard?
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
I guarantee you that Star for Star, Chris Paul would have a bigger impact on this team than Dwight Howard.......and it's not even remotely close...not in the slightest bit.

Howard wouldn't be the focal point of our offense, he would be behind Kobe and Pau for touches.....with those few touches he becomes Andrew Bynum.

With a REAL point guard penetrating and dishing, Andrew Bynum becomes Dwight Howard.

You take Magic Johnson off the Showtime Lakers and they don't win anything.
As great as Kareem was the team still got to the playoffs and finals without him......Hell, Magic won the first title with Kareem sitting at home for the final game.....and Jordan never had a real good center.

Howard's game is still way too incomplete for me to even consider him a future great.

Howard is not going to make his teammates better, he can't pass, he can't shoot.

With the crap we have at PG now, Howard would be in constant foul trouble anyway.....our problem is NOT at center so our solution is not at center.
If we had a good-very good PG I would say yeah get Howard.....but NO!!!!!

Get Howard = get torched by every PG in the league, even every backup guy.
What are opposing centers doing to us....not much.

As for Howard "Owning" the league.......see "Wilt Chamberlain" How few titles.
Dwight will NEVER approach the dominance of Wilt....much less Shaq.

Get the PG, then I will talk about Howard

I like a lot of the points you made, agree with them, and also think I wasn't that clear .

If we have a shot at getting Chris Paul then absolutely we should go all in. I was commenting on the basis that we wouldn't be getting a superstar PG.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
I guarantee you that Star for Star, Chris Paul would have a bigger impact on this team than Dwight Howard.......and it's not even remotely close...not in the slightest bit.

Howard wouldn't be the focal point of our offense, he would be behind Kobe and Pau for touches.....with those few touches he becomes Andrew Bynum.

With a REAL point guard penetrating and dishing, Andrew Bynum becomes Dwight Howard.

You take Magic Johnson off the Showtime Lakers and they don't win anything.
As great as Kareem was the team still got to the playoffs and finals without him......Hell, Magic won the first title with Kareem sitting at home for the final game.....and Jordan never had a real good center.

Howard's game is still way too incomplete for me to even consider him a future great.

Howard is not going to make his teammates better, he can't pass, he can't shoot.

With the crap we have at PG now, Howard would be in constant foul trouble anyway.....our problem is NOT at center so our solution is not at center.
If we had a good-very good PG I would say yeah get Howard.....but NO!!!!!

Get Howard = get torched by every PG in the league, even every backup guy.
What are opposing centers doing to us....not much.

As for Howard "Owning" the league.......see "Wilt Chamberlain" How few titles.
Dwight will NEVER approach the dominance of Wilt....much less Shaq.

Get the PG, then I will talk about Howard

Dwight Howard doesnt make his teammates better? Are you kidding? His mere presence on the floor makes all the guys on the court better. he opens up the floor for everyone. He is constantly doubled and he gives the perimeter guys a lot of space.

He makes his teammates better by covering their asses defensively. He is the best help defender in the league.

Its a complete joke to believe Dwight is not making players better around him. I will give you this, he is not a great passer out of doubles, but he has improved the last 2 seasons. And why does he need to be able to shoot to make his teammates better?

The Lakers have better defensive players than the Magic. Dwight does a great job staying on the floor considering how terrible the perimeter defenders are. I mean, are you trying to imply Jameer Nelson is anywhere near a good defender? Last season, Dwight played the most minutes he has ever played in his career while having one of his lowest foul per game averages.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

True the Lakers need a point guard...badly.

If there is a way to get Paul from the Hornets I do it in a heartbeat.
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA.MJ&KB#1
DKLaker is serious about getting a point guard..Bro we got a pg (DF) ...Now could we talk about Dwight Howard?

Lol


Ok to even better explain......Dwight Howard is a black hole, once the ball goes into him he will either shoot or turn it over because he can't pass.

Look at the points he scores and understand that he is THE FOCAL POINT of the Magic offense, he is THE GUY who gets the touches and even with that he averages only 23 points a game.......now put him on the Lakers and give him HALF as many touches OR LESS and watch that scoring drop to 13-14 per game or.........HELLO ANDREW BYNUM. No real difference.

Add to that, we are getting destroyed by PG's, Howard is not going to help that situation at all. If we were getting destroyed by centers then ok get Howard.....but we are NOT. We cannot count on getting any points from our PG's either so the position has been a total loss every game.
Our #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 priority needs to be getting our point guard situation handled.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Lol


Ok to even better explain......Dwight Howard is a black hole, once the ball goes into him he will either shoot or turn it over because he can't pass.

Look at the points he scores and understand that he is THE FOCAL POINT of the Magic offense, he is THE GUY who gets the touches and even with that he averages only 23 points a game.......now put him on the Lakers and give him HALF as many touches OR LESS and watch that scoring drop to 13-14 per game or.........HELLO ANDREW BYNUM. No real difference.

Add to that, we are getting destroyed by PG's, Howard is not going to help that situation at all. If we were getting destroyed by centers then ok get Howard.....but we are NOT. We cannot count on getting any points from our PG's either so the position has been a total loss every game.
Our #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 priority needs to be getting our point guard situation handled.

Well with everything you said, i'd like to use your own argument to prove MY point He is the focal point of the magic's offense on a team that has reached deep into the playoffs the past few years (with the exception of the last year because of the trade which created more problems than solutions).

In a system like Mike Brown's, Dwight is gonna be the focal point on the defensive end, and with guys like Kobe and Pau getting doubled, Dwight's points will come much easier on the offensive end.

Seeing as that we have spectacular passers in Kobe and Gasol, we wont need a point guard that is pass first, but rather someone that is very quick on defense and can dribble the ball. So you won't like me saying this, but maybe one more year of DF won't be so bad if he is doing his job defensively, which is also something that is debatable. The great thing about having someone like Dwight Howard is that it covers a lot of mistakes made by perimeter players.
Case in point would be Andrew Bynum. When he started playing like the best center in the league, the lakers had a 17-1 stretch last season because his defensive was the bail out for guys like Fisher.
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

I think Howard and Gasol would work perfect together.

Even better then Gasol and Bynum.

Bynum wants more touches where with the Lakers Howard can just grab boards with Pau being the main post up guy...the offense should run to him in the post because yes he can pass better.

Howard will be the defensive anchor on the team.

Man just think about that....would be nice.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Well with everything you said, i'd like to use your own argument to prove MY point He is the focal point of the magic's offense on a team that has reached deep into the playoffs the past few years (with the exception of the last year because of the trade which created more problems than solutions).

In a system like Mike Brown's, Dwight is gonna be the focal point on the defensive end, and with guys like Kobe and Pau getting doubled, Dwight's points will come much easier on the offensive end.

Seeing as that we have spectacular passers in Kobe and Gasol, we wont need a point guard that is pass first, but rather someone that is very quick on defense and can dribble the ball. So you won't like me saying this, but maybe one more year of DF won't be so bad if he is doing his job defensively, which is also something that is debatable. The great thing about having someone like Dwight Howard is that it covers a lot of mistakes made by perimeter players.
Case in point would be Andrew Bynum. When he started playing like the best center in the league, the lakers had a 17-1 stretch last season because his defensive was the bail out for guys like Fisher.




This is like a race car driver with a broken steering wheel telling the pit crew it's ok, just give me a bigger engine

Or like a guy going to the hospital with a knife in his chest asking the doctor to fix his skinned knee first.


If you guys actually think Howard's scoring won't go downwards......just see Chris Bosh......and Howard can't even shoot.

Bynum played 10 minutes less per game and averaged 2 blocks per game.....Howard averaged 2.4 oh yeah, that's worth paying him 10 million more per year while we continue to get destroyed by PG's.
.4 more blocks in 10 more minutes.....wake up guys!!!

Stat= Howard 1.4 assists, 3.58 turnovers Ugh!!!!!!

Bynum 1.4 Assists, 1.37 turnovers

Sorry guys, Dwight is horribly overrated, making a trade for him would end up being little more than a lateral move. The biggest impact we could make would be to get a real starting PG......it really doesn't even have to be a star.


Pau getting doubled?????? Nah, I would just have a 6'8" guy bang on him.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker


This is like a race car driver with a broken steering wheel telling the pit crew it's ok, just give me a bigger engine

Or like a guy going to the hospital with a knife in his chest asking the doctor to fix his skinned knee first.


If you guys actually think Howard's scoring won't go downwards......just see Chris Bosh......and Howard can't even shoot.

Bynum played 10 minutes less per game and averaged 2 blocks per game.....Howard averaged 2.4 oh yeah, that's worth paying him 10 million more per year while we continue to get destroyed by PG's.
.4 more blocks in 10 more minutes.....wake up guys!!!

Stat= Howard 1.4 assists, 3.58 turnovers Ugh!!!!!!

Bynum 1.4 Assists, 1.37 turnovers

Sorry guys, Dwight is horribly overrated, making a trade for him would end up being little more than a lateral move. The biggest impact we could make would be to get a real starting PG......it really doesn't even have to be a star.


Pau getting doubled?????? Nah, I would just have a 6'8" guy bang on him.

the 4 TO's a game from Dwight are a result of him being the number 1 option on offense. I assure you that it wouldn't be the same here in Los Angeles.

Did you just compare a beast named howard to Chris Bosh? Come on man terrible example. Bosh is a PF that plays like a SF which is where most of the chemistry problems in Miami came from. And by the way, they still reached the finals because of that talent level. Give us the BEST in the business in Dwight and combine him with the best shooting guard and the best low post offensive player and you got yourself a pain in the ass of a team to play against.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker


This is like a race car driver with a broken steering wheel telling the pit crew it's ok, just give me a bigger engine

Or like a guy going to the hospital with a knife in his chest asking the doctor to fix his skinned knee first.


If you guys actually think Howard's scoring won't go downwards......just see Chris Bosh......and Howard can't even shoot.

Bynum played 10 minutes less per game and averaged 2 blocks per game.....Howard averaged 2.4 oh yeah, that's worth paying him 10 million more per year while we continue to get destroyed by PG's.
.4 more blocks in 10 more minutes.....wake up guys!!!

Stat= Howard 1.4 assists, 3.58 turnovers Ugh!!!!!!

Bynum 1.4 Assists, 1.37 turnovers

Sorry guys, Dwight is horribly overrated, making a trade for him would end up being little more than a lateral move. The biggest impact we could make would be to get a real starting PG......it really doesn't even have to be a star.


Pau getting doubled?????? Nah, I would just have a 6'8" guy bang on him.

No, Dwight Howard is an elite center and the best center in the game. You are basing all your assumption on him on his reputation earlier in his career. He has improved a lot offensively and he has improved in being able to stay on the floor while keeping his fouls down.

You are the one who needs to wake up when trying to say Bynum and Dwight are equals. Does being the most durable player in the game have no value at all?? Have you seen the type of strain that has been forced upon Pau bc Bynum can never stay on the floor for extended periods of time? He would never be the same as Bynum bc Bynum cannot stay healthy. With Howard, he has shown consistently he can give you 80 games a season. And this is while playing the most minutes on the team and being the focal point offensively and defensively.

I dont know why you throw out meaningless stats with Dwight and Bynum. One is the focal point on offense and the other is a 3rd option. Obviously the 3rd option will have much fewer TO's.

I do agree Lakers need a pg more. But to say acquiring Dwight does nothing for this team is absolutely ridiculous. He is an impact player on both ends of the floor. I would take him over Bynum in a heartbeat.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
No, Dwight Howard is an elite center and the best center in the game. You are basing all your assumption on him on his reputation earlier in his career. He has improved a lot offensively and he has improved in being able to stay on the floor while keeping his fouls down.

You are the one who needs to wake up when trying to say Bynum and Dwight are equals. Does being the most durable player in the game have no value at all?? Have you seen the type of strain that has been forced upon Pau bc Bynum can never stay on the floor for extended periods of time? He would never be the same as Bynum bc Bynum cannot stay healthy. With Howard, he has shown consistently he can give you 80 games a season. And this is while playing the most minutes on the team and being the focal point offensively and defensively.

I dont know why you throw out meaningless stats with Dwight and Bynum. One is the focal point on offense and the other is a 3rd option. Obviously the 3rd option will have much fewer TO's.

I do agree Lakers need a pg more. But to say acquiring Dwight does nothing for this team is absolutely ridiculous. He is an impact player on both ends of the floor. I would take him over Bynum in a heartbeat.

It's not the fact that he has 4 turnovers.....it's the turnover to assist ratio and I'd bet his is the worst in the entire NBA.......this has absolutely nothing to do with being a #1 option.

Having Kobe and Pau would make Howard's impact much smaller than you guys think. Without Kobe and Pau....bigger impact, it's very simple math and I already explained it.....if dude is averaging 23 as #1 it will only go downwards.....look at NBA history.....I've been watching NBA games since the 60's, I've seen this way too many times before to be fooled by it.

Howard has whined about touches as the #1 option.....you think he won't whine as the #3 option?
We have no PG's who can penetrate and dish, can't make tough passes, can't hit shots and cannot defend.....Fish is getting worse every season....anyone who thinks he will be better is nuts.

We need to fix the real problem as a crisis......if we do that then SURE we can think about getting Howard. Is Howard better than Bynum....of course but without a PG we are not going to win a championship.....not with what we have.

Repeat.....simple math: With Howard....maybe we score 6 more points at center and give up 5 less = 11 point difference
With a top PG we score 20+ more points and give up 10+ fewer points= 30 point difference. (Including increased assists).

Obviously we are approx 19 points better getting the PG instead of the Center.


To add to my point about Howard's points going down on this team. Wilt Chamberlain averaged a whopping 14.8ppg when the Lakers won their only title in 5 seasons with him.
Wilt's career average was 30.1......Howard is no Wilt!!!!

The championship seasons leading scorers were Jerry West and Gail Goodrich both averaged 26ppg and Happy Hairston averaged 19ppg. (Rounded slightly up).
I can name example after example of this stuff.....heard all the same hype....when Wilt came to the Lakers in 1968 everyone said the Lakers would win every year....blah blah blah. We damn well better get a PG!!!!!!

Last edited by DKLaker : 08-12-2011 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:49 AM   #27
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Dwight Howard in Orlando's 6 game 1st round playoff exit to the Hawks had mind blowing 33 turnovers and only 3 assists!!!!!! Black Hole!!!!

He makes his TEAM better by being out there,
but NOT his TEAMMATES.....THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

You keep arguing his asst to TO ratio. What I am saying is that wont be a problem with Kobe on the team since Kobe is still the no1 option. I agree we cant fully rely on Dwight as our focal point in the offense, but it doesn't mean he cant share the second option role with Pau. Besides Dwight being there for most games is more valuable than anything.

If Bynum was a healthy center we wouldn't be having this conversation, but he's not, and upgrading that center position to someone who has relatively the same numbers is an upgrade when you compare durability. What would our record be if Bynum played in every game? Besides, Bynum takes a few months to start getting "it" every season.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
You keep arguing his asst to TO ratio. What I am saying is that wont be a problem with Kobe on the team since Kobe is still the no1 option. I agree we cant fully rely on Dwight as our focal point in the offense, but it doesn't mean he cant share the second option role with Pau. Besides Dwight being there for most games is more valuable than anything.

If Bynum was a healthy center we wouldn't be having this conversation, but he's not, and upgrading that center position to someone who has relatively the same numbers is an upgrade when you compare durability. What would our record be if Bynum played in every game? Besides, Bynum takes a few months to start getting "it" every season.


Which is more important to this team in your opinion, dollar for dollar, upgrading at PG or upgrading at Center??????

I still disagree with you regarding Howard's turnovers, if he doesn't shoot the ball he will turn it over.....that IS a problem, a BIG PROBLEM. If he is NOT the #1 option he will be expected to throw more passes as we will move the ball around, this will only drive his turnovers up....get it?
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: How hopeful are you for the Dwight sweepstakes in 2012?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Which is more important to this team in your opinion, dollar for dollar, upgrading at PG or upgrading at Center??????

I still disagree with you regarding Howard's turnovers, if he doesn't shoot the ball he will turn it over.....that IS a problem, a BIG PROBLEM. If he is NOT the #1 option he will be expected to throw more passes as we will move the ball around, this will only drive his turnovers up....get it?

Well thats one way to look at it. The way I looked at it was that he was going to get more 1 on 1 opportunities so he wont be doubled much, or that he was going to get more wide open dunks from Kobe's penetrations. If all else fails, the pressure is off Pau which allows Pau to get more opportunities.

As far as your initial question goes, it depends on the point guard we are considering. If you're talking Chris Paul, then I go for Chris Paul over Dwight, or even Deron Williams. If your talking raymond felton or something along those lines, then I go for Dwight easily. You get me?
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