Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > D-League Forum, Minor League and International Basketball Forum

D-League Forum, Minor League and International Basketball Forum D-League Forum, Minor League and world international basketball forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2012, 08:51 AM   #1
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

GROUP E

Efes vs. Olympiacos
Galatasaray vs. CSKA Moscow

GROUP F

Bilbao vs. Real Madrid
Montepaschi Siena vs. Unicaja Malaga

GROUP G

Milano vs. UNICS
Panathinaikos vs. Fenerbahce

GROUP H

Zalgiris vs. Barcelona
Maccabi vs. Cantu
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #2
Fiba basketball
I feel devotion
 
Fiba basketball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

I want to watch CSKA . Can you give me a link ?
Fiba basketball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
CeltsGarlic
straight from...
 
CeltsGarlic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ...dungeons of rap
Posts: 7,940
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Damn, Oly game was exiting. Still Vujacic defense was beyond anything. Poor guy didnt improved his defense.

Right now watching Unics vs Armani.
CeltsGarlic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 06:19 PM   #4
Fiba basketball
I feel devotion
 
Fiba basketball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Much better games will be played tomorrow . I m going to watch Pao - Fener , Zalgiris - Barcelona and maybe CSKA - Galatasayar if I find good link .
Fiba basketball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 06:47 PM   #5
Sakkreth
Raptors/LTU/Zalgiris
 
Sakkreth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania
Posts: 4,061
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Efes vs. Olympiacos
Galatasaray vs. CSKA Moscow

GROUP F

Bilbao vs. Real Madrid
Montepaschi Siena vs. Unicaja Malaga

GROUP G

Milano vs. UNICS
Panathinaikos vs. Fenerbahce

GROUP H

Zalgiris vs. Barcelona
Maccabi vs. Cantu


Gonna watch Zalgiris Barca in arena, but damn Zalgiris fcked their chances for top 8 with that 4th quarter meltdown against cantu when they had 13pt lead in 4th...
Sakkreth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #6
Fiba basketball
I feel devotion
 
Fiba basketball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Ivkovic is showing that he is still a great coach and maybe the best ever . This Olympiacos team is an avrage top 16 team and he will make it top 8 team and who knows maybe they reach eaven F4 .
Fiba basketball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 04:40 AM   #7
chains5000
From Out Of Nowhere
 
chains5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 8,656
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakkreth
Bilbao vs. Real Madrid

chains5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 05:32 AM   #8
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
Ivkovic is showing that he is still a great coach and maybe the best ever . This Olympiacos team is an avrage top 16 team and he will make it top 8 team and who knows maybe they reach eaven F4 .

I don't think it was that Ivkovic did a good coaching job necessarily. I mean, he did, but that was not why Olympiacos won.

The thing that cost Efes the game was that their coach Surica decided to trap and double team (sometimes even triple team) Spanoulis every time he touched the ball in the half court set from the play maker position, or from the two guard spot in the shift of the offense to go one to one, or run the pick.

This strategy was an enormous failure, as Olympiacos countered it by simply having Spanoulis hold the ball far out from the 3 point line, wait for the double teams to come, then pass the ball at the corner of the 3 point line to a wing that was set to stay there.

Then they had another wing or pivot slide to the middle of the lane and another one slide out to the 3 point line on the opposite corner of the court away from the ball side of Spanoulis.

They effectively ran every combo of old Yugoslav and Soviet formation sets and because 2-3 defenders were focusing on Spanoulis and 1-2 of them were 7-8 meters from the basket, it just led to wide open shots all over the court.

Printezis had a bunch of open looks, Dorsey was freed up to crash the boards, and Papanikolaou was left basically free to get to the rim whenever he wanted to.

And still, in all of that, Spanoulis was even able to break free for shots whenever they didn't double him hard enough, or when they kind of brought the double too late.

About the only thing Efes' defensive strategy did was force Spanoulis into some turnovers and force an inconsistent 3 point shooter like Printezis to take some wide open shots.

I guess this was Surica's strategy, try to turn the ball over on Spanoulis and make Printezis beat them..............it backfired big time. You would think after it failed to work ALL game long, and that since Olympiacos kept running the same sets to score on them over and over, that Surica would make an adjustment.

He did nothing. Never once did he make an adjustment. Then at the end of the game, he had them intentionally foul, instead of playing defense on the last possession. Terrible decision on all accounts.

Olympiacos was reeling and struggling on offense. They would have trouble scoring in the last possession, and then if the game went to overtime, they could lose it. Efes had the home court and all the momentum. Olympiacos has been losing all the close games on the road, like against Cantu and Gala.

But instead, he has them foul, and he picks Sloukas? I guess Surica figured that he is just a young inexperienced player, and he will miss the free throws. Idiotic choice again.

Sloukas is a great free throw shooter and he is ice cold, and as clutch a player as there is. He lives for the big moment and taking big shots. Naturally, he easily hit both free throws. And what did Surica expect? That Efes would really hit a game ending shot after that, against an Olympiacos team that has defense as its trademark?

It wasn't so much what Ivkovic did. It was more simply that, the opposing coach did an awful job. Surica totally blew that game, and probably the season for his club. And based on his comments about how Olympiacos used Spanoulis after the game, you could tell he realized it.

But all game long, you could see they were just using Spanoulis as a decoy, and never did Surica make an adjustment. Horrible coaching display on Surica's part. And Olympiacos still has the 7th biggest budget in Euroleague. Keep that in mind.

Last edited by Euroleague : 02-09-2012 at 08:04 AM.
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 05:37 AM   #9
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
I want to watch CSKA . Can you give me a link ?

I would try:

http://www.hahasport.com/c-6.html

http://www.rojadirecta.me/

http://www.basknet.info/live/
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 05:38 AM   #10
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000


I will say it again, Real Madrid is by far the softest team in Euroleague. Then you put that against Bilbao, which is one of the toughest teams in the Euroleague (especially mentally) and these are the kinds of results you get.

Bilbao has enough to make the ACB finals again this year. And maybe even they have a shot at winning the Cop del Rey.
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 06:31 AM   #11
chains5000
From Out Of Nowhere
 
chains5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 8,656
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euroleague
I will say it again, Real Madrid is by far the softest team in Euroleague. Then you put that against Bilbao, which is one of the toughest teams in the Euroleague (especially mentally) and these are the kinds of results you get.

Bilbao has enough to make the ACB finals again this year. And maybe even they have a shot at winning the Cop del Rey.
We're not qualified for the Cup... I don't really care actually, Barcelona's too good and will win IMO.
As for the ACB Finals, as long as we don't face Barcelona before reaching them, I think we can beat anyone as long as we play our best. We need to get higher in the standings though.

As for Madrid, yeah, they're soft, which doesn't help at all against us. But that's not their biggest flaw, which is PG play (Sergio Lllull sucks at PG, should play SG, Sergio Rodriguez sucks) and the lack of a physical center (why did they let Fisher go?).
chains5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 07:25 AM   #12
Fiba basketball
I feel devotion
 
Fiba basketball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euroleague
I don't think it was that Ivkovic did a good coaching job necessarily. I mean, he did, but that was not why Olympiacos won.

The thing that cost Efes the game was that their coach Surica decided to trap and double team (sometimes even triple team) Spanoulis every time he touched the ball in the half court set from the play maker position, or from the two guard spot in the shift of the offense to go one to one, or run the pick.

This strategy was an enormous failure, as Olympiacos countered it by simply having Spanoulis hold the ball far out from the 3 point line, wait for the double teams to come, then pass the ball at the corner of the 3 point line to a wing that was set to stay there.

Then they had another wing or pivot slide to the middle of the lane and another one slide out to the 3 point line on the opposite corner of the court away from the ball side of Spanoulis.

They effectively ran every combo of old Yugoslav and Soviet formation sets and because 2-3 defenders were focusing on Spanoulis and 1-2 of them were 7-8 meters from the basket, it just led to wide open shots all over the court.

Printezis had a bunch of open looks, Dorsey was freed up to crash the boards, and Papanikolaou was left basically free to get to the rim whenever he wanted to.

And still, in all of that, Spanoulis was even able to break free for shots whenever they didn't double him hard enough, or when they kind of brought the double too late.

About the only thing Efes' defensive strategy did was force Spanoulis into some turnovers and force an inconsistent 3 point shooter like Printezis to take some wide open shots.

I guess this was Surica's strategy, try to turn the ball over on Spanoulis and make Printezis beat them..............it backfired big time. You would think after it failed to work ALL game long, and that since Olympiacos kept running the same sets to score on them over and over, that Surica would make an adjustment.

He did nothing. Never once did he make an adjustment. Then at the end of the game, he had them intentionally foul, instead of playing defense on the last possession. Terrible decision on all accounts.

Olympiacos was reeling and struggling on offense. They would have trouble scoring in the last possession, and then if the game went to overtime, they could lose it. Efes had the home court and all the momentum. Olympiacos has been losing all the close games on the road, like against Cantu and Gala.

But instead, he has them foul, and he picks Sloukas? I guess Surica figured that he is just a young inexperienced player, and he will miss the free throws. Idiotic choice again.

Sloukas is a great free throw shooter and he is ice cold, and as clutch a player as their is. He lives for the big moment and taking big shots. Naturally, he easily hit both free throws. And what did Surica expect? That Efes would really hit a game ending shot after that, against an Olympiacos team that has defense as its trademark?

It wasn't so much what Ivkovic did. It was more simply that, the opposing coach did an awful job. Surica totally blew that game, and probably the season for his club. And based on his comments about how Olympiacos used Spanoulis after the game, you could tell he realized it.

But all game long, you could see they were just using Spanoulis as a decoy, and never did Surica make an adjustment. Horrible coaching display on Surica's part. And Olympiacos still has the 7th biggest budget in Euroleague. Keep that in mind.
Olympiacos has Spanoulis who got injured couple of times this season and bunch of avrage players . So I think its Ivkovic good work . Spanoulis said that its good that this Olympiacos team has great coach like Ivkovic and that he can make them better . I wasnt talking only about game against Efes when I said Ivkovic is showing that he is still a great coach , I was talking about this season .
Fiba basketball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:06 AM   #13
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
We're not qualified for the Cup... I don't really care actually, Barcelona's too good and will win IMO.
As for the ACB Finals, as long as we don't face Barcelona before reaching them, I think we can beat anyone as long as we play our best. We need to get higher in the standings though.

As for Madrid, yeah, they're soft, which doesn't help at all against us. But that's not their biggest flaw, which is PG play (Sergio Lllull sucks at PG, should play SG, Sergio Rodriguez sucks) and the lack of a physical center (why did they let Fisher go?).

I didn't realize that Bilbao was outside of the standings in ACB until I checked them. I guess they are taking it too easy during the domestic games. I have no idea why Llull is used as a point guard. He's like the most purest 100% shooting guard there is in the Euroleague.

Last edited by Euroleague : 02-09-2012 at 08:20 AM.
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:08 AM   #14
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,099
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
Olympiacos has Spanoulis who got injured couple of times this season and bunch of avrage players . So I think its Ivkovic good work . Spanoulis said that its good that this Olympiacos team has great coach like Ivkovic and that he can make them better . I wasnt talking only about game against Efes when I said Ivkovic is showing that he is still a great coach , I was talking about this season .

Oh I agree with you then, if you meant about the whole season. You are wrong though that all the players besides Spanoulis are average. Printezis is way better than average.

And while many of the players are average in an overall sense, or on offense, they have a lot of good shooters and really good defenders.

Like Sloukas, Antic, Gecevicius = excellent shooters.

Pelekanos, Papanikoloau, Dorsey, Mantzaris = great defensive players

Even guys that don't even play like Keselj (great shooter) and Katsivelis (great defender) can provide at least something if they were to be put in a game, in terms of defense or shooting.

Then you have a big body like Glyniadakis, and also, Papadopoulos is still unstoppable in the low post, and if you double him he still makes teams pay with his passing.

Hines is a great offensive rebounder and weak side shot blocker, great finisher in the paint, etc. It's a lot of players that might be average overall, but that excel in particular areas of the game. So it's a HUGE difference versus say a roster like Malaga, which has a lot of average players that are average in everything.

Like you had Baskonia in their regular season group and they did not advance, and now probably Efes won't advance from their Top 16 group. On paper it looks like they have better players, but the difference is that they don't have all the defenders and shooters that Olympiacos has.

So while Olympiacos may have a lot of average players individually, they have a very good team as a whole unit together. It's similar to Bilbao actually. Bilbao does not have the greatest individual players or team on paper, but as a unit together as a team, it just fits very well.

Even Siena is similar in that way. Of course they have a lot of very good players, so it's not quite the same, but what I mean is they can compete with the teams like Panathinaikos, CSKA, Barca that have actually better players, yet don't get as much out of them. Siena, even though it has really godo players, still overachieves.

The opposites are teams like Fener, Efes, Real Madrid......teams that are worse than they look on paper because the individual pieces don't fit that well. I understand what you mean about Olympiacos' players individually, but as a team, it's quite good, and that's not just the coach. Actually, it's a more complete team I think than they had in recent years with the super rosters and the league's biggest budget. Just because they have guys that are willing to do whatever is needed to win.

Kind of, Ivkovic has assembled a team that is similar to Serbian national team, taking some average players and making it very good as a unit, by mixing it with some good players and having guys that can shoot, defend, rebound. I would not give all credit to Ivkovic though, or Spanoulis. Besides that, if they have to play Siena in the playoffs, it would be very hard to make the Final Four, although, if they get Papadopoulos and one of Pelekanos or Vasilopoulos back from injury, they would have a chance to do so. I don't think they could beat Siena without Papadopoulos, and without Pelekanos or Vasilopoulos.

Last edited by Euroleague : 02-09-2012 at 08:27 AM.
Euroleague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #15
Fiba basketball
I feel devotion
 
Fiba basketball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Eurolegue Top 16: Week 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euroleague
Oh I agree with you then, if you meant about the whole season. You are wrong though that all the players besides Spanoulis are average. Printezis is way better than average.

And while many of the players are average in an overall sense, or on offense, they have a lot of good shooters and really good defenders.

Like Sloukas, Antic, Gecevicius = excellent shooters.

Pelekanos, Papanikoloau, Dorsey, Mantzaris = great defensive players

Even guys that don't even play like Keselj (great shooter) and Katsivelis (great defender) can provide at least something if they were to be put in a game, in terms of defense or shooting.

Then you have a big body like Glyniadakis, and also, Papadopoulos is still unstoppable in the low post, and if you double him he still makes teams pay with his passing.

Hines is a great offensive rebounder and weak side shot blocker, great finisher in the paint, etc. It's a lot of players that might be average overall, but that excel in particular areas of the game. So it's a HUGE difference versus say a roster like Malaga, which has a lot of average players that are average in everything.

Like you had Baskonia in their regular season group and they did not advance, and now probably Efes won't advance from their Top 16 group. On paper it looks like they have better players, but the difference is that they don't have all the defenders and shooters that Olympiacos has.

So while Olympiacos may have a lot of average players individually, they have a very good team as a whole unit together. It's similar to Bilbao actually. Bilbao does not have the greatest individual players or team on paper, but as a unit together as a team, it just fits very well.

Even Siena is similar in that way. Of course they have a lot of very good players, so it's not quite the same, but what I mean is they can compete with the teams like Panathinaikos, CSKA, Barca that have actually better players, yet don't get as much out of them. Siena, even though it has really godo players, still overachieves.

The opposites are teams like Fener, Efes, Real Madrid......teams that are worse than they look on paper because the individual pieces don't fit that well. I understand what you mean about Olympiacos' players individually, but as a team, it's quite good, and that's not just the coach. Actually, it's a more complete team I think than they had in recent years with the super rosters and the league's biggest budget. Just because they have guys that are willing to do whatever is needed to win.

Kind of, Ivkovic has assembled a team that is similar to Serbian national team, taking some average players and making it very good as a unit, by mixing it with some good players and having guys that can shoot, defend, rebound. I would not give all credit to Ivkovic though, or Spanoulis. Besides that, if they have to play Siena in the playoffs, it would be very hard to make the Final Four, although, if they get Papadopoulos and one of Pelekanos or Vasilopoulos back from injury, they would have a chance to do so. I don't think they could beat Siena without Papadopoulos, and without Pelekanos or Vasilopoulos.
Ivkovic selected players he needs to make that happen . Do you think every coach would get this players and made them play like a team . Only great coaches know how to make a team play together like that
Fiba basketball is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy