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Old 08-05-2011, 05:01 PM   #1
Jballer
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Default No Flame war please : A very objective look

The Point Forward : An "opinion" on the Top 100 by Zach Lowe CNNSI writter.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011...sct=nba_t12_a2

66. Andrea Bargnani
F-C, Toronto Raptors
Age: 25
2010-11 Stats: 21.4 PPG, 44.8 FG%, 34.5 3PT%, 5.2 RPG, 1.8 APG

Many will hate this ranking, I realize. The Bargnani devotees who see the next Nowitzki — still — will yell and scream about how there is no way a guy who averaged 21.4 points per game should rank this low. And then there are those who believe that Bargnani’s historically bad rebounding makes him one of the worst players in NBA history.

The truth is he’s somewhere in between, which is why we’re going to place him here — a dismally low spot for a No. 1 overall draft pick. But Bargnani is still a reasonably good player who could work in the right context (i.e. not as a No. 1 scoring option, surrounded by inexperienced or poor defenders). He is indeed terrible on the glass — one of the worst big man rebounders who has ever played in the NBA. That matters. To say he’s an equally bad defender is both true and too general. As Sebastian Pruiti has pointed out, Synergy numbers have consistently painted Bargnani as a solid defender in the post and in one-on-one situations. That is not a made-up thing or an exercise in excuse-making. The numbers are there, and the evidence is there on the video, if you remove the anti-Bargnani blinders.

Unfortunately, the trouble starts when Bargnani has to move around the court, either to quash a pick-and-roll, help a teammate or dart out toward a shooter. He has never been much good at any of this. And this is the stuff big men have to be better at now, in an era where there aren’t too many back-to-the-basket brutes who play to Bargnani’s relative strengths.

Add it all up, including the rebounding, and you’ve got a subpar big man defender at the center of just about every dismal Raptors lineup that took the floor last season.

Ranking him here, at No. 66 and above a few intriguing bigs, reflects the confidence that Bargnani’s shooting percentages will rebound to their career norms, and that a slowly changing team context in Toronto — the hiring of Dwane Casey and the maturation of DeMar DeRozan, Ed Davis and others — will turn Bargnani into a better player and serve to hide his weaknesses a bit more.

If Bargnani continues to flounder on defense, Gortat and Ibaka are going to blow right past him as all-around players. And if you wanted to put all of the four preceding big men — Gortat, Varejao, Ibaka and Okafor – ahead of Bargnani now, I wouldn’t argue.

Bargnani was a less efficient scorer last season, since his three-point percentage dropped to 34.5 percent — around the league average — and his overall mark dropped along with it. In his defense, Bargnani is miscast as a No. 1 scoring option. Having a 7-footer who can shoot threes should help your team because it loosens up spacing so much, but the benefits are lost to some degree when you’re asking a third or second banana to do first-banana work.

Bargnani should be an asset, especially since he started to get the line at an above-average rate last season. And given how alleged defensive sieves have turned their careers around when gifted better playing environments, it’s fun to wonder if Bargnani could emerge as a neutral defender under a guru coach and alongside an elite defensive player or two. Can that happen in Toronto? Hiring Casey is a start.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

I will limit my commentary to well written and I agree with all of it.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Yes, I also agree on the comments about all the players I read. That guy has to know a lot about basketball. Very insightful comments.

The 66th best NBA player means the third best player in a good team. That is what I always said that Bargnani is. I don't know if Doko would rank him higher, but it is far from what the anti-Bargnani crew says about him not being a legit starter.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Good article. I agree with most of it.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

"one of the worst big man rebounders who has ever played in the NBA"

right on.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Fair article.

Just want to point one particular part of the article.

"The truth is he’s somewhere in between, which is why we’re going to place him here — a dismally low spot for a No. 1 overall draft pick. But Bargnani is still a reasonably good player "

Like many have said before me, the issue lies in his selection. If we stayed in 4 slot that year, we would have still had him. Expectations from fans and the media may have been much lower.

On the other hand, Colangalo would have still pressed him in everyones face as the next big thing and expectations may have be irrelevant to his draft position.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
Yes, I also agree on the comments about all the players I read. That guy has to know a lot about basketball. Very insightful comments.

The 66th best NBA player means the third best player in a good team. That is what I always said that Bargnani is. I don't know if Doko would rank him higher, but it is far from what the anti-Bargnani crew says about him not being a legit starter.

I've got to check who's 1-60 but I agree with most of the article.
I have him somewhere around 50 tho, so this ranking doesn't outrage me at all XD
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Bargnani came in lower (at #81) in ESPN's version of the rankings, and yet was still pointed out by two of their five panelists as the most overrated player in the 100 so far.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

Quote:
Originally Posted by keantona
Bargnani came in lower (at #81) in ESPN's version of the rankings, and yet was still pointed out by two of their five panelists as the most overrated player in the 100 so far.

I agree, he's closer to the bottom 100 than top 100.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

That is a great article.
When I look at the players that are ranked lower than him, I don't see that much of a problem with him at #66, although there is a few players below that could possibly be put above him.....
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: No Flame war please : A very objective look

I feel as though myself and Q have given this exact same assessment many times, probably aside from that last paragraph.
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