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Old 10-15-2011, 12:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
I should have expanded my original post; as it would have explained why your reasoning isn't applicable in this case.

Despite Uncharted 2 not receiving a perfect score; for the past two years it was considered by IGN the best game for the PS3. Which is why I think their numerical rating is inconsistent. They should at least modify their score at a later date. Their opinion of the game isn't reflective of their rating. If it was, then games like GTA, RDR & Metal Gear Solid would be above Uncharted 2. For the past two years, they were not according to their articles.

IGN does not (and should not) rate games based on their own personal preference. They rate games with an objective state of mind and the "genre" allows gamers to determine if it's their type of game.

List some descriptive intangibles that you speak of. If Batman had more intangible items and thus increased it's overall appeal; then it should have received a higher score in "Lasting Appeal" or perhaps "Gameplay" but it wasn't. If you could explain to me what these intangible items you speak of, I might be able to get a better idea of what you mean by it.

You also need to analyze the source of those reviews. Some sites are notorious for giving out a perfect score for any really good game. I wouldn't say my preference is comic book based video games but I'm happy it received such a prestigous score. It will most certainly diverse my gaming collection, since sooner or later I will purchase Arkham City.

When it comes to gaming intangibles I don't think you can define like you can clutch, leadership etc in basketball. You into cars? I've owned multiple performance cars and some of them you can't explain why it feels better when you drive it but you just know it does. It's the same idea. I can't tell you what I mean by gaming intangibles but I mean the overall feel about the game. How it all feels when you combine everything at the end of the day.

BTW don't take IGN's formula too seriously. Only focus on the review itself and overall rating. You're first problem is getting hung up on their categories because they aren't consistent and they aren't even important half the time. You honestly think a game with sound and graphics at a 10 is going to matter when compared to ones with graphics and sound at an 8 or 9? NO.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
When it comes to gaming intangibles I don't think you can define like you can clutch, leadership etc in basketball. You into cars? I've owned multiple performance cars and some of them you can't explain why it feels better when you drive it but you just know it does. It's the same idea. I can't tell you what I mean by gaming intangibles but I mean the overall feel about the game. How it all feels when you combine everything at the end of the day.

BTW don't take IGN's formula too seriously. Only focus on the review itself and overall rating. You're first problem is getting hung up on their categories because they aren't consistent and they aren't even important half the time. You honestly think a game with sound and graphics at a 10 is going to matter when compared to ones with graphics and sound at an 8 or 9? NO.

It depends.
If you have two games with a similar game-play & lasting appeal; then having better graphics, sound and presentation certainly distinguishes one from another.

I mean Uncharted 2's graphics & sound is phenomenal; but I wouldn't like it as much as I do if it wasn't for its dialogue, characterization and overall gameplay. However, I can rather easily say that its graphics, sound and presentation puts it above many other games who have comparable game-play.

So yeah it does matter, despite them being secondary indicators.
I don't understand why you don't appreciate those features. I mean they basically make the experience that much more gratifying. I'm sorry but if Uncharted didn't have evolutionary graphics then that would totally affect its gameplay and lasting appeal. I think sound, graphics & presentation are integral parts of gameplay.

Saying they don't matter is like saying "It doesn't matter if we surf in Hawaii or Lake Ontario." Both will give you an andrenaline rush...

I'm sure that impression wouldn't last though, when you remove a used condom from your mouth while surfing in Lake Ontario.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
It depends.
If you have two games with a similar game-play & lasting appeal; then having better graphics, sound and presentation certainly distinguishes one from another.

I mean Uncharted 2's graphics & sound is phenomenal; but I wouldn't like it as much as I do if it wasn't for its dialogue, characterization and overall gameplay. However, I can rather easily say that its graphics, sound and presentation puts it above many other games who have comparable game-play.

So yeah it does matter, despite them being secondary indicators.
I don't understand why you don't appreciate those features. I mean they basically make the experience that much more gratifying. I'm sorry but if Uncharted didn't have evolutionary graphics then that would totally affect its gameplay and lasting appeal. I think sound, graphics & presentation are integral parts of gameplay.

Saying they don't matter is like saying "It doesn't matter if we surf in Hawaii or Lake Ontario." Both will give you an andrenaline rush...

I'm sure that impression wouldn't last though, when you remove a used condom from your mouth while surfing in Lake Ontario.

Well that may be why you're a fan of Uncharted. Think about it man. If Graphics, sound and presentation are so vital why do diehard gamers still go back to older consoles and play Mario or Zelda? It's not for the nostalgia alone. There is a reason. Now everyone is so caught up on appearance, presentation and other surface level things and the quality of gameplay has declined. I think these things are FAR more important to casual gamers than someone like me who has been playing video games for 20+ years on a regular basis. I've owned every system since Nintendo.

Not saying you haven't because for all I know you're a diehard gamer too. I'm not even saying if you like Uncharted more, you aren't the same level of gamer as me etc, even if it seems that way. It's just sad how the gaming world has changed so much. Now all people care about is multiplayer, online related gaming and graphics. What about an epic story? What about memorable characters?

I just think the most logical explanation I can give you for the score inconsistencies from IGN is related to intangibles. For example.... they said 2K12 is better than 2K11 in every single way.... yet both got a 9.5 from IGN? See what I mean?

Last edited by Clippersfan86 : 10-15-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

I've never said graphics, sound & presentation are vital; I said they help you distinguish games withat offer similar gameplay. They are integral parts that enhance the experience.

Since my original post in this thread was comparing two similar games (with an identical score), I believe I'm still being relevant.

I'm not saying that graphics, sound & presentation are as vital of a component as the game's dialogue, story-line, mechanics, camera work etc. But I am saying that those integral parts can most certainly make one game more enjoyable then another if everything else is held constant.

People still play Zelda because of its gameplay & lasting appeal; that's the backbone to any game. You take Twilight Princess and enhance its graphics, sound & presentation value; you don't think it will be a better game (even if the improvements aren't overly dramatic)?

Now claiming a score of an 8 and a 9.5 isn't a big difference is completely arbitrary, and I am not about to argue with you about that. Too much subjectivity is involved here.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I just think the most logical explanation I can give you for the score inconsistencies from IGN is related to intangibles. For example.... they said 2K12 is better than 2K11 in every single way.... yet both got a 9.5 from IGN? See what I mean?

That doesn't solve my question, but rather perpetuates the problem I outlined already.

I'm not questioning their conclusion (or their articles), I am questioning their lack of consistency (or methodolgy) pertaining to quantitative measures regarding games.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
That doesn't solve my question, but rather perpetuates the problem I outlined already.

I'm not questioning their conclusion (or their articles), I am questioning their lack of consistency (or methodolgy) pertaining to quantitative measures regarding games.

Ah okay. Well I misunderstood your intentions I guess. Plus in your original post you said you didn't really elaborate on it. I would agree that they are inconsistent and they have been criticized a lot for it. I was just saying that intangible aspects may be why they do it. You'd probably have to interview IGN for a definitive answer.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
I've never said graphics, sound & presentation are vital; I said they help you distinguish games withat offer similar gameplay. They are integral parts that enhance the experience.

Since my original post in this thread was comparing two similar games (with an identical score), I believe I'm still being relevant.

I'm not saying that graphics, sound & presentation are as vital of a component as the game's dialogue, story-line, mechanics, camera work etc. But I am saying that those integral parts can most certainly make one game more enjoyable then another if everything else is held constant.

People still play Zelda because of its gameplay & lasting appeal; that's the backbone to any game. You take Twilight Princess and enhance its graphics, sound & presentation value; you don't think it will be a better game (even if the improvements aren't overly dramatic)?

Now claiming a score of an 8 and a 9.5 isn't a big difference is completely arbitrary, and I am not about to argue with you about that. Too much subjectivity is involved here.

Okay so we agree. Sound, graphics, presentation etc can add to a game for sure but they aren't vital. BTW.... you compared two completely different genres and games so why are you saying it's relevant? Sure they both got the same overall score but they are nothing alike besides the fact that both have great action.

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Old 10-15-2011, 01:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Okay so we agree. Sound, graphics, presentation etc can add to a game for sure but they aren't vital. BTW.... you compared two completely different genres and games so why are you saying it's relevant? Sure they both got the same overall score but they are nothing alike besides the fact that both have great action.
Yeah this is what I was just gonna post, excellent sound/gfx in a true linear game like UC2 vs the same quality in an open world game?
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by nightprowler10
Yeah this is what I was just gonna post, excellent sound/gfx in a true linear game like UC2 vs the same quality in an open world game?

Yup. It's also proven that open world games/sandbox games get more love. I mean look at Red Dead and the GTA games. They get 10's all the time and at least 9.5. I personally don't like sandbox but I also don't like linear. I like a nice balance like Mass Effect. Uncharted is like a blockbuster summer action movie. It's entertaining, explosive and fun.... but after you finish watching it... it's pretty forgettable. I don't feel any attachments to the characters of UC. It's a very superficial and simple game compared to my RPG's.

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Old 10-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

I'm with you on those games. Out of all the games I've pre-ordered, UC3 is the one I'm least looking forward to and ME3 is the one that gives me the biggest hard-on, though I think that has a lot to do with the epic storyline (I have all the novels ).

That said, I love sandbox style games. Splinter Cell was my favorite franchise until about a couple of years ago (the franchise lost it's soul after Chaos Theory) and it's been replaced by another sandbox style franchise, Assassin's Creed.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:01 PM   #41
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by nightprowler10
I'm with you on those games. Out of all the games I've pre-ordered, UC3 is the one I'm least looking forward to and ME3 is the one that gives me the biggest hard-on, though I think that has a lot to do with the epic storyline (I have all the novels ).

That said, I love sandbox style games. Splinter Cell was my favorite franchise until about a couple of years ago (the franchise lost it's soul after Chaos Theory) and it's been replaced by another sandbox style franchise, Assassin's Creed.

Nice taste in games. I haven't played Brotherhood yet but heard it's fun. Should I rent it?
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:19 PM   #42
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Nice taste in games. I haven't played Brotherhood yet but heard it's fun. Should I rent it?
You'd be a little lost in the storyline in Revelations if you don't play it. That said, while its superior to AC2 its not a huge upgrade. The combat is better and more fluid, storyline moves faster and is more dramatic than AC2 (Cesare is a bastardo), and Assassination missions are about on par with it's predecessor. But the biggest improvement is the side quests. Think of it as GTA: Renaissance era Rome. The underground missions are much better, Leonardo's machines missions are a ton of fun, destroying Borgia towers is pretty cool. Recruiting new assassins and training them is kinda stupid but being able to use these assassins in missions is pretty sweet. You can practically sit on the bench and execute some missions if you choose to do so. The DLCs are good, but AC2 outdoes brotherhood as it Bonfire of the Vanities. My biggest complaint would be the map being somewhat annoying in the remote areas of Rome, and the best armor in the game being butt ugly. At least you had Altair's armor in AC2 which was badass.

The side stuff basically makes AC2 seem boring compared to Brotherhood. Some Uncharted influence in certain missions. Oh, did I mention you get to use the apple?

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Old 10-15-2011, 03:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by nightprowler10
You'd be a little lost in the storyline in Revelations if you don't play it. That said, while its superior to AC2 its not a huge upgrade. The combat is better and more fluid, storyline moves faster and is more dramatic than AC2 (Cesare is a bastardo), and Assassination missions are about on par with it's predecessor. But the biggest improvement is the side quests. Think of it as GTA: Renaissance era Rome. The underground missions are much better, Leonardo's machines missions are a ton of fun, destroying Borgia towers is pretty cool. Recruiting new assassins and training them is kinda stupid but being able to use these assassins in missions is pretty sweet. You can practically sit on the bench and execute some missions if you choose to do so. The DLCs are good, but AC2 outdoes brotherhood as it Bonfire of the Vanities. My biggest complaint would be the map being somewhat annoying in the remote areas of Rome, and the best armor in the game being butt ugly. At least you had Altair's armor in AC2 which was badass.

The side stuff basically makes AC2 seem boring compared to Brotherhood. Some Uncharted influence in certain missions. Oh, did I mention you get to use the apple?

I beat first one and half of second one. Aren't there 4 now? Or only 3?
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I beat first one and half of second one. Aren't there 4 now? Or only 3?
The one coming out in November will be the fourth one. Storyline wise, Brotherhood is a continuation of the second one, it literally picks up at the exact spot AC2 left off, and Revelations will be a continuation of Brotherhood, except Ezio is like 50 years old (hmm.. very MGS-esque) and it will also be the last one with the Altair/Ezio storyline. It will tie up all the loose ends in the storyline and apparently pave the way for AC3. Gameplay wise, Brotherhood is a big improvement on the second one, and Revelations is supposed to be much different.

If you care about the story, try to finish #2, or at least read up on it, or I can give you a short what's what based on where you were.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: Batman Arkham City: "One of the best games ever made" 10/10 score

Yeah I definitely recommend playing the 2nd one. It'll help you understand the game much more and it's a good game. You can skip the first one if you want (just read up on it).
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