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Old 10-15-2011, 07:00 PM   #1
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Default Which player had the best peak ever?

List your reason.

Some good examples are Hakeem 95, Wilt 67, Shaq 00, Russell 62, Baylor 62, Jordan 93, Kareem 71 (or 77, not sure)..

Which stands out most?
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

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Originally Posted by PTB Fan
List your reason.

Some good examples are Hakeem 95, Wilt 67, Shaq 00, Russell 62, Baylor 62, Jordan 93, Kareem 71 (or 77, not sure)..

Which stands out most?

Interesting...I was going to make a post on Chamberlain's '67 season, so I might as well just respond to this instead.

No player ever OVERWHELMED the ENTIRE NBA the way that Wilt did in that '67 season. And, in the process, he led his team to an overpowering title.

I was just looking at his numbers vs. the league that year. First of all, he LED the NBA in TWELVE of their 23 main statistical categories. And, not only that, he also finished in the Top-5 in a TOTAL of EIGHTEEN of those 23 categories. And had blocked shots, and offensive and defensive rebounds, been official stats, he would surely have been top-5 (and extremely likely...THE leader) in those as well.

He "only" averaged 24.1 ppg, BUT, even the actual scoring leader, Rick Barry, who averaged 35.6 ppg that season admitted that, he (Barry) won it, because Wilt didn't want it. Of course, when Wilt had the desire, he would still pour in HUGE games. In fact, (and as always for EVERY season in the decade of the 60's), Wilt had the high game of the season (a 58 point game on 26-34 shooting.)

Of course, and as nearly always, Wilt LED the NBA in rebounding at 24.2 rpg. Nate Thurmond was a distant second at 21.3 rpg, and Russell was third at 21.0 rpg. I will get those two and theri post-season numbers vs. Wilt later, but in that '67 regular season, Wilt had his two highest rpg averages against Russell's Celtics and Thurmond's Warriors. Against Thurmond's Warriors, he averaged 25.9 rpg, and against Russell's Celtics, he averaged 26.7 rpg.

Chamberlain also finished THIRD in assists that season, at 7.8 apg. BTW, against the Warrior's, he averaged 8.8 apg (and against Russell he averaged 6.6 apg.)

Dickwad will jump on Wilt's FT%, which was an awful .441, BUT, Chamberlain LED the NBA in FTA's, and he finished 7th in FTs MADE, at 386. But, as we ALL KNOW, Chamberlain's IMPACT at the line went beyond his own numbers. His Sixers took the MOST FTAs in the league that year, and by a HUGE margin (390 more than the next best team), AND, they also LED the NBA in FTs MADE, at 2319. So, even though Philly came in dead last in FT%, they were still the LEADING SCORING team from the line that season.

Now, of all of Wilt's staggering individual accomplishments that season, his FG% was LIGHT YEARS ahead of BOTH, the next closest competitor, AND the ENTIRE league. His .683 mark was .162 ahead of the next best guy (Bellamy, at .521), which is a single season record (and only Wilt's .157 margin in '72-73 is close BTW.) And he outshot the entire league by an eye-popping .244 differential, which is second all-time, to his '72-73 margin of .271. No one else has ever even come close to a .200 margin, either.

Included in that mind-boggling efficiency, were the THREE highest "perfect games" in NBA history. He had games of 15-15, 16-16, and even an 18-18 game (and 43 points BTW.) He also made 35 STRAIGHT FGs, which again, is also an all-time record.

And just how dominant was Wilt vs. the other nine teams in the league that season covering nine games against each? How about these numbers...

28.6 ppg on .695 shooting vs. Cincinnati
20.1 ppg on .622 shooting against Detroit
22.1 ppg on .684 shooting vs. St. Louis
28.4 ppg on .759 shooting vs. Los Angeles
25.6 ppg on .797 shooting vs. Chicago
30.9 ppg on .748 shooting vs. Baltimore

And, how about these numbers...

20.3 ppg on .549 shooting vs. Russell's Celtics
20.7 ppg on .562 shooting vs. Thurmond's Warriors
22.7 ppg on .709 shooting vs. Bellamy (and Reed's) Knicks

Those FG%'s are just astonishing...and they came in a league that shot .441 overall. BTW, as a sidenote, in an early season encounter against Nate's Warriors, Wilt was following coach Hannum's directive to be a facilitator that season. However, the Sixers were getting beat in the first half, so at half-time, Hannum instructed Wilt to take it to Thurmond in the second half of that game. Chamberlain responded with 24 second half points, en route to a 30 point, 26 rebound, 12 block game (and a win of course.)

Incidently, the Sixers led the NBA (and by a HUGE margin) in FG%, at .483, BUT, take Wilt out of the equation, and Philly shot .449, which would still have been among the leaders, but behind LA's .453.

Continued...
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

Bird, Hakeem, Jordan (unstoppable pre-championships)...
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

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Bird, Hakeem, Jordan (unstoppable pre-championships)...

MJ's pre championship year were dominant for sure...
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

In terms of both level of play/impact as well as accomplishments during the season (championships, MVP awards etc.) these are the gold standards imo:

Jordan 1991
Shaq 2000
Bird 1986
Kareem 1971
Magic 1987
Wilt 1967
Hakeem 1994
Duncan 2003

I personally have MJ and Shaq first and second (the rest of the list above is NOT in order), but can see how KAJ may be on that level. If you're excluding accomplishments and just looking at impact, other seasons from these players qualify and even surpass the ones listed imo.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

Jordan's peak was either '90 or '91, imo, though he was pretty much at the same level from '90-'92. I thought he lost a tiny bit in '93 compared to those other 3 years.

Hakeem's overall peak was '94, imo, and you could even argue '93, though I consider '95 to be his best playoff run.

Kareem's peak was definitely '77, imo, he claimed that himself and I saw articles with other players and coaches agreeing. Top 5 peaks are between those 2 as well as Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt.

They're really tough to compare, particularly comparing Jordan to 4 centers. I'd throw '86 Bird into the discussion as well. I don't really think any of them are bad choices. Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem's roles are the easiest to compare, though Kareem didn't win a title in his peak season, he also had the worst cast and was pretty much a one man team, look at the footage or the stats to see what I mean.

In terms of Jordan, in '90 and '91, his scoring and maybe overall offense was probably more impressive than any other player I've seen because he wasn't really ball dominant, made quick decisions and moves with the ball, could beat you in so many ways, played off the ball well, had a great mid-range jumper and had become a capable 3 point shooter. And to go along with that, I don't think any perimeter player who scored 30+ ppg(or maybe even 25 ppg) was as good defensively as Jordan was at that time. His man to man defense was obviously very good, but his help defense set him apart from many other perimeter players. We all know about his clutch ability as well.

Kareem pretty much didn't have a weakness at his peak. Early in his career, he'd have trouble against stronger players, but he had gotten stronger by the mid 70's and had better counter moves with the left-handed hook and turnaround jumper to go along with the most devastating shot in history, his right-handed sky hook. He was also a phenomenal passer, elite shot blocker and while his rebounding was a big criticism, he had a very good rebounding season that year.

Wilt was among the greatest rebounders ever and by '67, showed his great passing ability and it seems that a lot of the Sixers offense benefited from his passing. His shot blocking and overall defensive impact was rivaled only by Hakeem among the players mentioned, and had become a lower scoring player, but very efficient 20+ ppg scorer who from everything I've read, bought into the team concept completely that season. He also clearly outplayed two all-time great centers in Russell and Thurmond while ending the Celtics run of 8 straight titles. He had a great series vs Cincinnati as well.

Shaq and Hakeem are the easiest to compare due to the fact that they played the same position and peaked only six years apart. Despite that, this comes down to a matter of preference. Hakeem was the most skilled big man I've ever seen and unlike Shaq didn't seem to have a weakness. He was also a better defender, and his team relied on him so much in '94 due to them being built with role players around him and shooters who relied on him.

Though Shaq was the more dominant and effective offensive player, imo, and a better rebounder in 2000 than Hakeem was in '95. Maybe a slightly better passer as well. Not as good of a defender, but he did anchor the best defensive team in the league in 2000 and finished among the leaders in shot blocking, while being one of the tougher players to score against with your back to the basket.

The fact that the Lakers went 67-15 and 12-3 with Kobe out(significant due to the Lakers lack of talent outside of their duo), and that Portland put more into slowing down Shaq in the WCF than any team I've seen focus on one player combined with how much he put the Lakers on the back in the finals(38/17 averages) makes him a legit contender for greatest peak ever.

Yes, it's a cop out, but when you get to that level, it's almost pointless and impossible to accurately rank them. It's largely a matter of preference.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

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Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Jordan's peak was either '90 or '91, imo, though he was pretty much at the same level from '90-'92. I thought he lost a tiny bit in '93 compared to those other 3 years.

Hakeem's overall peak was '94, imo, and you could even argue '93, though I consider '95 to be his best playoff run.

Kareem's peak was definitely '77, imo, he claimed that himself and I saw articles with other players and coaches agreeing. Top 5 peaks are between those 2 as well as Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt.

They're really tough to compare, particularly comparing Jordan to 4 centers. I'd throw '86 Bird into the discussion as well. I don't really think any of them are bad choices. Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem's roles are the easiest to compare, though Kareem didn't win a title in his peak season, he also had the worst cast and was pretty much a one man team, look at the footage or the stats to see what I mean.

In terms of Jordan, in '90 and '91, his scoring and maybe overall offense was probably more impressive than any other player I've seen because he wasn't really ball dominant, made quick decisions and moves with the ball, could beat you in so many ways, played off the ball well, had a great mid-range jumper and had become a capable 3 point shooter. And to go along with that, I don't think any perimeter player who scored 30+ ppg(or maybe even 25 ppg) was as good defensively as Jordan was at that time. His man to man defense was obviously very good, but his help defense set him apart from many other perimeter players. We all know about his clutch ability as well.

Kareem pretty much didn't have a weakness at his peak. Early in his career, he'd have trouble against stronger players, but he had gotten stronger by the mid 70's and had better counter moves with the left-handed hook and turnaround jumper to go along with the most devastating shot in history, his right-handed sky hook. He was also a phenomenal passer, elite shot blocker and while his rebounding was a big criticism, he had a very good rebounding season that year.

Wilt was among the greatest rebounders ever and by '67, showed his great passing ability and it seems that a lot of the Sixers offense benefited from his passing. His shot blocking and overall defensive impact was rivaled only by Hakeem among the players mentioned, and had become a lower scoring player, but very efficient 20+ ppg scorer who from everything I've read, bought into the team concept completely that season. He also clearly outplayed two all-time great centers in Russell and Thurmond while ending the Celtics run of 8 straight titles. He had a great series vs Cincinnati as well.

Shaq and Hakeem are the easiest to compare due to the fact that they played the same position and peaked only six years apart. Despite that, this comes down to a matter of preference. Hakeem was the most skilled big man I've ever seen and unlike Shaq didn't seem to have a weakness. He was also a better defender, and his team relied on him so much in '94 due to them being built with role players around him and shooters who relied on him.

Though Shaq was the more dominant and effective offensive player, imo, and a better rebounder in 2000 than Hakeem was in '95. Maybe a slightly better passer as well. Not as good of a defender, but he did anchor the best defensive team in the league in 2000 and finished among the leaders in shot blocking, while being one of the tougher players to score against with your back to the basket.

The fact that the Lakers went 67-15 and 12-3 with Kobe out(significant due to the Lakers lack of talent outside of their duo), and that Portland put more into slowing down Shaq in the WCF than any team I've seen focus on one player combined with how much he put the Lakers on the back in the finals(38/17 averages) makes him a legit contender for greatest peak ever.

Yes, it's a cop out, but when you get to that level, it's almost pointless and impossible to accurately rank them. It's largely a matter of preference.

Once again brilliant post.

By the way, i was in doubt about which year to put for MJ because he was dominant in all. But that 93 stood out for me. He owned the Suns for a NBA still standing record of 41.0 points on 50% FG in the Finals

And Kareem's peak in 77 was remarkable. He went on a clinic. I don't know how the journalists could say that he was being outplayed by Bill Walton, but if Kareem's supporting cast was any good.. who knows.

What about Bill Russell in 62 or perhaps 65?
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

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Originally Posted by PTB Fan
Once again brilliant post.

By the way, i was in doubt about which year to put for MJ because he was dominant in all. But that 93 stood out for me. He owned the Suns for a NBA still standing record of 41.0 points on 50% FG in the Finals

And Kareem's peak in 77 was remarkable. He went on a clinic. I don't know how the journalists could say that he was being outplayed by Bill Walton, but if Kareem's supporting cast was any good.. who knows.

What about Bill Russell in 62 or perhaps 65?

Those are 2 years that are in consideration for Russell's peak. I had always thought '62, but '64 and '65 are also good choices as well. I believe Russell has chosen '64 as his best year because he claimed that was the team's best season, for what it's worth.

As far as comparing his peak to others? That's even harder than ranking the top 5. This is because I don't think it's any particular season that set Russell apart, it was winning as much as he did. And his style of play is even harder for to me compare across eras. Though I do think he was the best defensive player ever when comparing players to their own eras.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

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Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Those are 2 years that are in consideration for Russell's peak. I had always thought '62, but '64 and '65 are also good choices as well. I believe Russell has chosen '64 as his best year because he claimed that was the team's best season, for what it's worth.

As far as comparing his peak to others? That's even harder than ranking the top 5. This is because I don't think it's any particular season that set Russell apart, it was winning as much as he did. And his style of play is even harder for to me compare across eras. Though I do think he was the best defensive player ever when comparing players to their own eras.

He averaged something like 24-27 in the 62 Finals. But in 64, he somewhat gets little better offensively. Scores less but more efficiently. But like you say, it comes down to personal preference
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

Jlauber, why are you so butthurt all the time? Seriously?

You mention me in every post you write, get over yourself, it's basketball and you are getting all crazy over me writing the truth about how terrible Wilt was from the FT-line 50 freaking years ago. And the "Dickwad" thing is just pathetic, you are 56 years old, act like a man in your age should act.

And regarding his FT's, again... A guy who is that bad from the FT-line will always be a huge unreliability when games are about to be decided. Shaq was a horrible FT-shooter and he always gets crap for it, Wilt was even worse but it's often forgotten for some reason, probably because it was so long ago but it's still a fact.

I couldn't care less how many he made, it's like the correlation between FGA and FG made, the more you shoot the more you're supposed to make. Is that really that hard to understand? You always spam about Wilt making more FT's than Bird which just shows what level you're really at. First of all, it's not effective at all fouling a great FT-shooter like Bird because the result in the majority of the times will be 2 points plus a foul. Fouling a guy like Wilt is very effective though, you can almost be sure that he'll miss one FT and therefor he is a much better victim for being fouled. And secondly, a guy shooting the ball as much as Wilt is of course a way more obvious obstacle to foul, we are talking about a guy who freaking averaged 40 shots per game in one season.

In the modern era a guy like Wilt would get exposed big time when the games are about to be decided, foul the guy and you can almost be sure he'll at least miss one of the big FT's.


I rather foul a guy shooting FT's like this (Wilt): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8

Rather than this (Bird): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El7ALhdafsk

Last edited by millwad : 10-15-2011 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

How great was the competition in the NBA in '67? Before Dickwad makes a nonsensical post about how "weak" it was, let's examine the league a little closer, shall we?

The Royals "only" went 39-42 that season. They must have had a pretty mediocre group of players, huh? Yep...players like Happy Hairston, who would go on to be one the best rebounding forwards of his era. Bob Love, who would be among the scoring leaders within a few years. Flynn Robinson, who was considered a better pure shooter than either West or Goodrich on the '72 champion Lakers. Jon McGlocklin, who was perhaps the greatest long range shooter of his era. He would go to shoot .535 with the '71 Bucks, and almost all of it comeing from beyond 20+ ft (and probably closer to 25 ft.)Adrian Smith averaged 16.6 ppg (and shot .903 from the line) in '67. Oh, and then there was Jerry Lucas, who like McGlocklin, had unlimited range...and all he did in '67 was average 17.8 ppg and 19.3 rpg. Ooops, I forgot one more player...Oscar Roberston, and all he did in '67 was average 30.5 ppg, on .493 shooting (and again, in a league that shot .441), along with a league-leading 11.2 apg.

Surely the 39-42 St. Louis Hawks were a miserable bunch, right? Let's look...
Paul Silas, who would go on to be one of the leading rebounders in the league in the decade of the 70's. Dick Snyder, a 6-5 guard who would have seasons of 18 and 19 ppg in the 70's. Richie Guerin, who admittedly, was in the twilight of his career. Guerin had a season in the early 60's, though, in which he averaged 29.5 ppg, as well as three others of 20+. In '67 he averaged 13.7 ppg. 6-5 "Jumpin" Joe Caldwell, who averaged 13.8 ppg in '67, and who would have a 21.1 ppg season in '70. Bill Bridges, one of the all-time greatest rebounders, and, in that '67 season, he averaged 17.4 ppg and 15.1 rpg. How about center Zelmo Beaty, who would be a FIVE-time all-star in his career. In '67 he averaged 17.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, and shot a respectable .473. He would also have three more NBA seasons of at least 20 ppg, as well as two of over 22 ppg in the ABA. Then there was HOFer Lenny Wilkins, who averaged 17.4 ppg and 5.4 apg in '67. He also had THREE seasons in his career in which he averaged 20+ ppg, and he led the NBA in apg in '70. And finally, there was Lou Hudson. Hudson led the Hawks in scoring in '67 at 18.4 ppg, but he would become a solid scorer after that. He amassed SEVEN seasons of 20+ ppg, including a high season of 26.8 ppg in '71.

How about the 36-45 Knicks? Dick Barnett, who averaged 17.0 ppg in '67 (and on .478 shooting BTW), but a player who was an all-star in the very next season, and who also averaged 23.1 ppg just the season before his '67 season in 65-66. Dick Van Arsdale, who averaged 15.1 ppg in '67, BUT, who would go on to have THREE straight 20+ppg seasons within two years. Howard Komives, who averaged 15.7 ppg in '67. Bruiser Dave Stallworth, who averaged 13.0 in '67. "Sixth man" Cazzie Russell, who averaged 11.3 ppg in '67, but who would be an explosive scorer off the bench for much of his career, and he even had a 21.4 ppg season in '71. Am I leaving anyone else out? Oh, wait...how about HOFers Willis Reed, the 6-9 PF-C who averaged 20.9 ppg, 14.6 rpg, and shot .489 in '67. AND, 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, who averaged 19.0 ppg, 13.5 rpg, and shot .521.

Then there was the 44-37 Warriors, who made it to the Finals. 6-10 Clyde Lee, who averaged 7.4 rpg in 16.9 mpg in '67, and who would get as many as 14+ rpg in a season within a few years. Fred Hetzel, who averaged 12.2 ppg in '67, but would average 19.0 ppg the very next year. Guard Jeff Mullins, who averaged 12.9 ppg in '67, BUT, who would average 18.9 ppg the very next season, AND, would have FOUR more seasons of 20+ ppg in a row. Paul Neumann at 13.9 ppg. The Warriors also had Tom Meschery, a decent player for much of his career, and hard-nosed Al Attles, a pretty solid defender. And then there was 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond, who was at his peak, and who averaged 18.7 ppg and 21.3 rpg in '67. In fact, Thurmond may very well have been the THIRD greatest defensive center in NBA HISTORY. Just ask a PRIME Kareem, who had TWO HORRIBLE post-seasons against Thurmond (shooting .428 and .405 against him), and who very likely shot somewhere under 45% against Nate in their 50+ career H2H games (in fact, Kareem's high game against Thurmond, in those H2H's was only 34 points!) On top of all of that, the Warriors also had HOFer Rick Barry, who had the highest "non-Wilt" scoring season in the Wilt-era, at 35.6 ppg. Of course, nearly a decade later, Barry would guide a rag-tag group to an NBA title.

The Lakers, who only went 36-45? No way they would have any talent, right?
Well, LA had Archie Clark, who averaged 10.5 ppg in '67, but who would be an all-star the very next season along with a 19.9 ppg average. Mahdi Abdul Rahman (Walt Hazzard) who averaged 9.3 ppg in '67, BUT, who would average 24.0 ppg with Seattle the very next season. Rudy Larusso, who averaged 12.8 ppg in '67, but who average 21.8 ppg the very next season with the Warriors. Journeyman center Darrell Imhoff, who averaged 10.7 ppg and 13.3 rpg in '67. 7-0 PF-C Mel Counts, who had a decent outside shot. Tom Hawkins, who had a quality career. Gail Goodrich, who averaged 12.4 ppg in '67, BUT would go on to have a HOF career. Then there was Elgin Baylor, the greatest Forward of his era, and who averaged 26.6 ppg and 12.8 rpg in '67. And finally, how about HOFer Jerry West, who averaged 28.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, and dished out 6.8 apg in '67. Think about that...Elgin and West were basically the Lebron and Wade of their era...and yet, in '67 their Lakers could only go 36-45.

And I have long maintained that the '67 Celtics were the DEEPEST team in NBA history. Yes, you could argue that their '63 team, which had NINE HOFers was better, but not as deep. And, the '67 Celtics went 60-21, which was among their best records in the Russell-era. How deep were they? They could go as far as TEN players deep. Jim Barnett only averaged 4.1 ppg in '67, but that was only because he was their TENTH man. He had a pretty solid career after that, however. HOFer Wayne Embry was a 6-8 250 lb F-C who backed up Russell, as well as provided rebounding off the bench. KC Jones, who is in the HOF basically because he was considered among the top defensive guards of his era. Versatile Don Nelson, who averaged 7.5 ppg off the bench in '67. HOFer Satch Sanders, who was considered the best defensive forward in the league for many years, and who averaged 10.2 ppg. Larry Siegfried, who averaged 14.1 ppg off the bench in '67. HOFer Bailey Howell, who averaged 20.0 on a very good .512 shooting in '67. "Sixth man" HOFer John Havlicek, who averaged 21.4 ppg in '67, and who would go on to have seasons of 27.5 ppg and 28.9 ppg later on. Sam Jones, who averaged a team leading 22.1 ppg in '67 (and who would have FOUR seasons of 20+, including a high of 25.9 ppg.) Oh, and someone else named Russell. Russell averaged 13.3 ppg on .454 shooting in '67, as well as 21.0 rpg, and his always great defense.

Wilt's Sixers didn't lack for talent either. They had HOFers Hal Greer, who was second behind Wilt in scoring, at 22.1 ppg. Chet Walker, who averaged 19.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg. Luke Jackson, who was a solid 6-9 250 lber, and who gave Philly tough defense along with 12.0 ppg and 8.9 rpg. Streak-shooting Wali Jones, who averaged 13.2 ppg. "Sixth man" and HOFer Billy Cunningham, who averaged 18.5 ppg and 7.3 rpg in '67. Larry Costello, Billy Melchionni, and Matt Guokas rounded out the roster (Guokas, BTW, shot .389 in '67...but by the early 70's, he was shooting as high as .570.) Of course, the Sixers also had a PEAK Chamberlain, who might very well have been an even better defender than Russell by that time.

Continued...
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

Jlauber...

First time I see someone hyping 4 teams like crazy while none of them even won more than 39 games in that particular season..

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Old 10-15-2011, 09:21 PM   #13
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Jlauber...

First time I see someone hyping 4 teams like crazy while none of them even won more than 39 games in that particular season..

Obviously you didn't (or couldn't) read my post. The bulk of those teams were LOADED with talent. All anyone needs to know is that Baylor and West, who were the Lebron and Wade of their era...couldn't get the Lakers to even a .500 record.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:31 PM   #14
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Obviously you didn't (or couldn't) read my post. The bulk of those teams were LOADED with talent. All anyone needs to know is that Baylor and West, who were the Lebron and Wade of their era...couldn't get the Lakers to even a .500 record.

Loaded teams that couldn't win more than 39 games, that's the definition of shitty teams. If injuries is not the reason behind those crappy records, then it's obvious that they are shitty teams and nothing more or less.

You are the worst poster ever, you are actually trying to make case for how great the teams really were and then you bring up 4 teams who even couldn't win more than 39 games in that particular season. Get real, jackass.

The league had 10 teams in '67 and you mention 4 crappy teams that even couldn't get a winning record and then you think you made a great case because you namedropped a bunch of roleplayers you never even saw playing and only know about because of google and basketball-reference..

Get real, in 1967 you were 12 years old and here you are 44 years after the actual games trying to convince us about the greatness of Darrell Imhoff, Tom Hawkins, Jim Barnett, Dave Stallworth, Clyde Lee, Tom Meschery etc..

And what's even more funny is that when your beloved Tom Meschery played with Wilt I saw you call him pure garbage but now when you're trying to make a case for the greatness of those loosing record teams he is suddenly "a decent player for most of his career".. You just play with words..

I think it's nice to respect and make research about the oldschool ballers but you are just full of crap, mister. You just play with words and you think everyone will fall for your garbage.

Last edited by millwad : 10-15-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:03 PM   #15
jlauber
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Default Re: Which player had the best peak ever?

Continuing ....

We already KNOW that Chamberlain just CRUSHED the NBA in the '67 regular season. His numbers against each team in the league were mind-boggling...even against the likes of Russell and Thurmond (and he just BURIED 6-11 HOFer Bellamy.)

And, in an early season showdown with the eight-time defending champion Celtics, Philly just annihilated the Celtics, 138-96. They steam-rolled to a 45-4 record, and never looked back...en route to a then-record W-L mark of 68-13. And once again, this occurred in a STACKED league. And, Boston had one their best records in the entire Russell-era...but they STILL finished a grand-canyon chasm-sized margin behind Wilt's Sixers.

And, while Dickwad praises Hal Greer for leading the Sixers in scoring in the post-season, only a complete idiot would claim that Chamberlain could not have scored FAR more.

As it was, Wilt opened the playoffs with a 41 point game, on 19-30 shooting, with 22 rebounds and five assists. BTW, those 41 points would be a Sixer post-season HIGH that year. Chamberlain followed that performance up with a 37 point game, on 16-24 shooting, with 27 rebounds, and 11 assists. Just a staggering TRIPLE-DOUBLE. One can only wonder how many post-season scoring records Wilt would have had, had he had the good fortune to face a non-HOF center like he did in that first round against the Royals. In game three, Chamberlain went back to his coach's strategy of facilitating the offense, and he put up a 16 point, 30 rebound, 19 assist game (yes, 19 assists, which equal the NBA playoff record at the time.)

The Sixers easily dispatched the Royals in that first round, 3-1, but take a second look at Wilt's numbers for that series: 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, and a sensational .612 FG% (a TRIPLE-DOUBLE series.)

Next up came the eagerly anticipated matchup between the eight-time defending champion Celtics, and their 60-21 mark. Chamberlain BURIED Russell in the very first game of that series, hanging a 24 point, on 9-13 shooting, 32 rebound, 13 assist, 12 block QUAD-DOUBLE on him. In game three, Russell played brilliantly, grabbing 29 rebounds. However, Wilt put up an all-world and playoff record mark of 41 rebounds. BTW, there were a TOTAL of 134 available rebounds in that game, and Wilt had 30% of them.

The Sixers jumped out to a 3-0 series lead, and only a very poor game four by the Sixers prevented a sweep. Boston was able to eke out a 121-117 win on their home flloor. And it was Wilt's worst game of the series (20 points, 22 rebounds, and 8-18 shooting.)

In game five, Boston jumped out to an early 17 point lead, but behind the spectacular play of Wilt in that first half (22 points in that half), Philly closed to within a point at the half. And then the 76ers just blew the game open in the second half. Late in the 4th period they led by a 131-104 margin, en route to a 140-116 shellacking of the proud Dynasty. Think about that... from late in the first quarter, to late in the 4th quarter, the Sixers outscored Boston by 44 points.

And who was the REAL star of that clinching game? Was it Dickwad's Greer? True, Greer led the Sixers in scoring with 32 points, but it came on 12-28 shooting. However, Wilt put up 29 points (and again, 22 in the first half when the game was still close), and on 10-16 shooting. Oh, and BTW, Wilt also handed out 13 assists, blocked seven shots, and grabbed 36 rebounds. How about the "clutch" Russell in that deciding game? FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, with seven assists, and 21 rebounds.

For the series, Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg. He outassisted Russell, per game, 10 apg to 6 apg. He outrebounded Russell, and by a staggering 32 rpg to 23 rpg margin. And, he outshot Russell, by a .556 to .358 differential. And for the record, Russell had shot .454 during the regular season. Yes, one again...a TRIPLE DOUBLE SERIES...and against RUSSELL.

The Sixers were heavily-favored to beat the 44-37 Warriors, and after a game two blowout win of 126-95, and putting Philly up 2-0, it was a forgone conclusion. To the Warrior's credit, they battled back from 3-1 down with a close game five win. BUT, then Wilt DOMINATED in the clinching game six win. While Dickwad constantly harps on the fact that Greer led the Sixers in scoring, it was ALWAYS Wilt that came up BIG in that post-season. While Greer choked in that clinching game six win, with 15 points on 5-16 shooting, all Wilt did was outscore Thurmond, 24-12; outrebound Nate, 23-22; and outshoot Thurmond, 8-13 to 4-13.

For the series, Wilt outscored Nate, per game, 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg (BUT, Nate took 99 FGAs to Wilt's 75); outrebounded Thurmond, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 (and he outrebounded Thurmond in FIVE of the six games...including one game in which he outrebounded Nate, 38-29; and he outshot Thurmond by...get this... .560 to .343. Wilt did what Kareem could never do...shoot over 50% against Thurmond in the post-season...and he did it with a staggering .560 mark. Oh, and BTW, Wilt also outshot Nate in their two other playoff series, .500 to .398, and .550 to .392. And Wilt outrebounded Thurmond in nearly EVERY one of their 17 post-season H2H's.

For the entire post-season, Chamberlain averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, and shot .579 while easily outscoring, outrebounding, outpassing, and outshooting Russell and Thurmond by huge margins.
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