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Old 12-29-2006, 04:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by statman32
agree...i was barely not old enough to vote in the last election but i would have voted for the lesser of the two idiots...bush
You get any idiot with Bush, and the lesser of the 2 idiots will NEVER be Bush. He is a complete and utter moron.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Timmeh
I'm sorry if that offends you but it's the truth.

I went to get my driver's license renewed today and under race, they put me down for "Non-Latino". Are there that many illegals or Latino-non-english-speaking citizens in America to where the government is deciphering Latinos from Non-Latinos?

The important issue is not that it offends me personally, but it insults all of us (including my family) who are relatively recent immigrants to this country and all people who recognize that America was built on the hard work and sacrifice of immigrants and your attitude flies in the face of the basic human respect and dignity that people inherently deserve. People often have had problems with those who are different and to overgeneralize by trashing all people of certain nationalities, you perpetuate the ignorance that divides people and that makes it possible for political and religious extremists to hold sway over the minds of many Americans.
(In fact, Timmeh, if you are not full-blooded Native American then do you belong here?)
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:41 PM   #18
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Did I say that immigrants were bringing this country down? NO! I said the Mexicans were. And I apologize for not elaborating enough on it. I fully support immigrants, from whatever nation, that come to America and actually work, abide the laws, and be a model citizen. I do not support these people who sneak into the country, and either steal a hard working citizen's identity, or mooch off of the government. And that goes for blacks, whites, and any other color of race.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:44 PM   #19
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I do not support these people who sneak into the country, and either steal a hard working citizen's identity, or mooch off of the government. And that goes for blacks, whites, and any other color of race.

IF i lived in mexico i would come here illegal. Mexico sux and the government is so corrupt. That country should be flourishing with all the natural resources it has. A mexican can make more money working in the US than in mexico. Put yourself in there shoes. You say its bad but you would do the same. I know I would.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:54 PM   #20
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I am saying these things calmly and with the intention of educating and not accusing. I have lived well over a half-century and can see a larger picture that you may not be aware of, yet. Please study the history of immigration to this country (both forced immigration such as those enslaved and also intentional immigration) over the past three hundred years and pay particular attention to how immigrants from everywhere have been regarded by those Americans who were here first. You may not have experienced it but most of us who are immigrants and minorities (such as myself) have experienced hatred and discrimination just because we are of a certain religious or ethnic group or race. Perhaps now it is people from Mexico who are accused of taking jobs, sponging off the government, committing crimes, etc. But in the past it has been African peoples, Italians, Jews and lots of other people who were (and who in many cases still are) treated the same way. In fact even my parents--they were first generation American born--suffered through not being able to get housing or jobs and who weren't allowed (legally) to own property in many geographic areas simply because of where we were from or what name we called our God. This is the reality and it is far from the American ideal. I have read that the majority of illegal immigrants to this country are from overseas and if you lived in some of the poverty-ridden areas whether they are south of the border or anywhere else, you would understand why people are so desperate to get to the U.S. in any way possible. I am not an advocate for illegal immigration but when we are not rational then we can't come up with solutions to problems. Should the Mexican government be held to account for not investing in it's own economy so that people remain desperate? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!! So should all governments--including our own.

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Old 12-29-2006, 05:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by telephone
IF i lived in mexico i would come here illegal. Mexico sux and the government is so corrupt. That country should be flourishing with all the natural resources it has. A mexican can make more money working in the US than in mexico. Put yourself in there shoes. You say its bad but you would do the same. I know I would.
I agree, put yourselves where these Mexicans are, under a corrupt government, torn up with gangs, and its hard to survive; just a few miles north, is the most powerful country in the world, where everybody supposedly ''has a chance to do anything'' They are fed stories about relatives, and friends who went to America, and lived the american dream. Why WOULDNT they sneak into America? Sure, its wrong, and it hurts the government, but do you think that these Mexican immigrants will decide not to sneak into america, and lead their families into a new, and better life just because the government doesnt want it to happen?
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Old 12-29-2006, 06:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by telephone
For example, Howard Dean was the best candidate but screwed it up with his "I ahve a scream" speech and kerry was their best chance to win.

That "scream" nonsense was so overplayed. Wow. Guy can't scream because he's happy but apparently it's OK to be an ex-alcoholic/ex-coke addict/failure as a businessman and father?
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Old 12-29-2006, 06:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by shafir
I agree, put yourselves where these Mexicans are, under a corrupt government, torn up with gangs, and its hard to survive; just a few miles north, is the most powerful country in the world, where everybody supposedly ''has a chance to do anything'' They are fed stories about relatives, and friends who went to America, and lived the american dream. Why WOULDNT they sneak into America? Sure, its wrong, and it hurts the government, but do you think that these Mexican immigrants will decide not to sneak into america, and lead their families into a new, and better life just because the government doesnt want it to happen?


Oh, I don't know. How about going through the LEGAL CHANNELS that everyone else does. Legal immigration is the key here.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:02 PM   #24
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Peopel are denied legal immigration. So ya not everyone gets in legally and it can take over 2 years
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by telephone
Peopel are denied legal immigration. So ya not everyone gets in legally and it can take over 2 years


It doesn't matter how long it takes. That doesn't give someone the right to break the law. Why don't you tell me why some people are denied legal immigration. There is probably a pretty good reason some people are. Criminial background, etc, etc.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:08 PM   #26
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IF you cant become legal than i would say **** it and cross the border to get some money to send to my family.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:10 PM   #27
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Native American: Hi, may I see your papers?
Pilgrim: Here you go.
Native American: Hm, yes. Well, sorry; I'm going to have to deny you entry to the United States. Says here you're a religious fanatic that has burned several people at the stake. You also have a tendency of killing so-called "heretics".
Pilgrim: But.. England is awful!
Native American: Sorry, bruh. That's how the corn flour blows.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by telephone
IF you cant become legal than i would say **** it and cross the border to get some money to send to my family.


Yeah, and if I was guarding the border and saw you try some mess like that, I'd send your ass back.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by reppy
Native American: Hi, may I see your papers?
Pilgrim: Here you go.
Native American: Hm, yes. Well, sorry; I'm going to have to deny you entry to the United States. Says here you're a religious fanatic that has burned several people at the stake. You also have a tendency of killing so-called "heretics".
Pilgrim: But.. England is awful!
Native American: Sorry, bruh. That's how the corn flour blows.


The colonists arrived legally as far as English law. They were sent by an expansionist government to establish a foothold in the "New World". The fact that/we they became successful and desired a split from the tyrannical "mother land" is fodder for another thread.

A lot of our ancestors came over after the wars, or the potato famine, or whatever horrible thing that comming to America was the only way to solve the problem, long after the west was already "won".

People from other lands coming over and essentially setting up shop and/or taking land from Native Americans created America’s population. However, there really weren’t citizen laws then until we made them.

You can’t fault people for wanting a better way of life, but they are indeed breaking the law. So the laws need to either be enforced or revised. In fact, a lot of this country’s laws need to be enforced or revised in my opinion.

What's the point in bringing up the slaughter of the Indians as it relates to illegal immigration? It's not relevant. We live in a modern society with set laws and defined borders. Other governements agree to recognize these national borders, and any breach of that is a violation of our laws.

Illegals are not citizens of this country, but despite that fact, have the option of becoming citizens by taking a pledge and signing a few papers. They have a clear alternative to crossing the border illegally.

You'd also have to keep in mind that the territories on Native North American tribes were also not fixed. There were battles and raids, with some of the bigger empires in South America being particularly bad.

Last edited by Heilige : 12-29-2006 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:24 PM   #30
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Yeah, English law aka "manifest destiny", right? Oops, someone is already here! Oh well, English law says I can take this land for myself!
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