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Old 10-25-2011, 05:33 PM   #16
Godzuki
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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Beck is 30, and doesn't show anything that would indicate he's more than 31 year old Grossman: a journeyman.

Outside of Helu, what is the solid foundation for RB? Hightower, a nice but disposable player who is done for the year with a knee injury? Torain, who dazzles at times but can't stay on the field because of his allergy to pass protection and continual injuries? Same things he showed in college.

I mentioned the defensive draft picks, along with Davis on the offensive side. There's not another receiver under 30.

I guess, technically, you're right. Shanahan has improved them from being the laughingstock of the league. If that's good enough for you, ok. But I don't see them trending upward, and they have among the worst collection of skill position players in the league. What you're seeing now is right about the upside of their personnel imo.

its been like a year since they were the laughing stock of the NFL....u can't expect dramatic change overnight which it seems like ure expecting. hell ure lucky to even have Beck/Grossman over how horrible Campbell had been with the Skiins for years...and Torrain/Helu are a lot better than a lot of teams have if their starter goes down....not to mention i can't understand how u can be so critical of Shanahan since it finally looks like they're at least on track to becoming a much better team, and he's dramatically improved their ability to run/pass with more consistency than previous years.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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its been like a year since they were the laughing stock of the NFL....u can't expect dramatic change overnight which it seems like ure expecting. hell ure lucky to even have Beck/Grossman over how horrible Campbell had been with the Skiins for years...and Torrain/Helu are a lot better than a lot of teams have if their starter goes down....not to mention i can't understand how u can be so critical of Shanahan since it finally looks like they're at least on track to becoming a much better team, and he's dramatically improved their ability to run/pass with more consistency than previous years.

The problem you had with jason campbell was the coaching.. how many coaches did he play for ?? dude had to learn a new playbook almost every year he was with the redskins, and thats ontop of bogus additions to the offense. see what he's done with the raiders before he got injured this season ?
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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....not to mention i can't understand how u can be so critical of Shanahan since it finally looks like they're at least on track to becoming a much better team.

Guess that's the core of where we differ. I don't see anything in their roster that makes me think they're on track to become a much better team.

Guess only time will tell.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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The problem you had with jason campbell was the coaching.. how many coaches did he play for ?? dude had to learn a new playbook almost every year he was with the redskins, and thats ontop of bogus additions to the offense. see what he's done with the raiders before he got injured this season ?


yeah but IMO it was only a matter of time before he had a horrible game. i don't blame Redskin coaches for Campbell, if anything they always made excuses for him including Sonny Jergensen, i swear i'd watch their Redskiins show and he'd be so sure of Campbell as the QB of the future where George Michaels would just take his word for it, but he was as inconsistent as they came. i thought he was awful with the Skin's, and i think he didn't play enough games for the Raiders to reallly show his inconsistency, coupled with him being sort of protected with their run based offense. not saying he didn't improve since i think he did, but i still wouldn't have trusted him as a #1 if i were running a team.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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Beck is 30, and doesn't show anything that would indicate he's more than 31 year old Grossman: a journeyman.

Neither are a long-term answer, but finding one isn't easy.

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I mentioned the defensive draft picks, along with Davis on the offensive side. There's not another receiver under 30.

You mean besides Anthony Armstrong, Terrence Austin, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Chris Cooley, and Logan Paulsen? So is Brandon Banks, but I wouldn't call him a receiver, though.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:55 AM   #21
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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Neither are a long-term answer, but finding one isn't easy.



You mean besides Anthony Armstrong, Terrence Austin, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Chris Cooley, and Logan Paulsen? So is Brandon Banks, but I wouldn't call him a receiver, though.


i think Beck can be decent, he's not that far off from where Henne was, and he looked pretty decent this year until he got hurt. and to me Grossman is either a very good backup, and borderline starter QB. if people are expecting the next Peyton then thats a whole different story.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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You mean besides Anthony Armstrong, Terrence Austin, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Chris Cooley, and Logan Paulsen? So is Brandon Banks, but I wouldn't call him a receiver, though.

We were discussing age of their starters on each side of the ball, not entire roster. Cooley was taken out of that equation since, by the next time he's eligible to play, he'll be 30.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:15 AM   #23
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

Sp, you're now changing your argument to only the starters? Who cares who the starters are? It matters who gets into the game and gets passes thrown to them.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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Sp, you're now changing your argument to only the starters? Who cares who the starters are? It matters who gets into the game and gets passes thrown to them.

No, you're attempting to change the discussion...one in which you weren't involved... to an argument. Godzuki and I were discussing the age of their starters on both sides of the ball.

Every team is loaded with young guys who play special teams and provide little used depth. Rather than focus on minutiae like that, we were talking about starters, the players the team and coaches count on for constant production. When the NFL discusses the age of an offense or defense, they utilize the age of the starters.

But thanks so much for your input.

Last edited by JMT : 10-28-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:40 AM   #25
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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No, you're attempting to change the discussion...one in which you weren't involved... to an argument.

WTF does that matter? You scared of someone else coming in and jumping into an argument?

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Godzuki and I were discussing the age of their starters on both sides of the ball.

The Steelers have had one of the oldest teams for a while.

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Every team is loaded with young guys who play special teams and provide little used depth. Rather than focus on minutiae like that, we were talking about starters, the players the team and coaches count on for constant production.

Awesome, so you're just going to ignore what I said because it goes against what you want to say. Apparently, getting pt and having passes thrown at a receiver is "minutiae".

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When the NFL discusses the age of an offense or defense, they utilize the age of the starters.

Yeah, and? Who's on the bad side of 30? Moss is 32, but we have a number of young receivers under him (yeah, all the ones you want to ignore). We've been looking for young receivers for a while now and will continue to do so. Moss is injured, so he's no longer a starter anyways. London Fletcher is 36, and losing him will hurt, but it's a good thing we have 2 young studs on the outside and there's time to find Fletcher's replacement. The only other old guys are Sellars, who barely made the team, and the punter. Also, Buchanon is 31, but I don't think he's played yet this season. What's the big problem with age on the team? QB is the only position where we're missing young talent.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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The Steelers have had one of the oldest teams for a while.


That adds incredible value to our discussion of the age of the Redskin starters. Feel free to compare the Steelers personnel to that of the Skins. Thanks again!

Last edited by JMT : 10-30-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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That adds incredible value to our discussion of the age of the Redskin starters. Feel free to compare the Steelers personnel to that of the Skins. Thanks again!

Translation: I have nothing to say, so I'm going to make another asinine comment.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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Translation: I have nothing to say, so I'm going to make another asinine comment.

I have nothing to say? You jumped in and started an entirely different conversation, one that had no bearing on the one I was having with Godzuki.

I'll give you this: Never was a poster more aptly named.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

What are you saying? Yes, everybody knows we were lacking in the QB department. Thanks for that brilliant insight. The team was clearly on the way up (all you had to do was look at the defensive side to see a very clear example) before the injuries set in. You mumble about age, but then completely fail to support it in any way. You're continually saying that I'm not adding anything when you're just conveniently dumping on a team with serious injury problems. Different conversation? I was responding directly to what you stated in this thread. It's not my fault if you're all over the place.

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I'll give you this: Never was a poster more aptly named.

Lame, very lame. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less from you. Though, I guess it's better than listening to you cry about the BCS.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Redskins now officially Deadskins

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What are you saying? Yes, everybody knows we were lacking in the QB department. Thanks for that brilliant insight. The team was clearly on the way up (all you had to do was look at the defensive side to see a very clear example) before the injuries set in. You mumble about age, but then completely fail to support it in any way. You're continually saying that I'm not adding anything when you're just conveniently dumping on a team with serious injury problems. Different conversation? I was responding directly to what you stated in this thread. It's not my fault if you're all over the place.



.

The person with whom I was talking felt that Beck &/or Grossman were viable options. I disagreed. I'm in agreement with you; I would have thought anyone could see that. But obviously someone didn't.

As for clearly on the way up, the Skins beat a Giants team that entered the season as decimated with injuries as Washington is now; the awful Cardinals; and a bad Rams team. I didn't think they were headed the right direction back then, just the beneficiaries of a favorable early schedule.

We were specifically discussing the age of the starters on either side of the ball. It's a fact that's what the topic of discussion was. You continually screaming that it wasn't doesn't change that. There is no reasonable response to someone who jumps into a conversation about the color of the sky and starts yelling about the water. It's kind of like your comment about the BCS; you seem to have either the difficulty or unwillingness to stay on topic.

I haven't "dumped" on this team. I gave my opinion about where they're headed as a franchise in response to someone who was asking people's opinions on that topic. If you as a fervent fan see that as dumping, and can't step back far enough to understand that every conversation isn't an attack, there's nothing I can do about it.
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