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Old 10-28-2011, 12:07 AM   #31
brisbaneman
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by Heavincent
I don't even like Lebron, but Christ, this is just laughable.

Get real man.

which ones is he better than? I think my list is very reasonable.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:29 AM   #32
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Lebron is a good defender in the sense that he is a boon to your team on that end of the floor because he'll at least hit rotations and get some blocks, but his man D is definitely overrated.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...file/11/15/211
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by Heavincent
Oh really? I wonder why Dirk completely out performed him in every phase of the game in the Finals.


4-7 games>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>100+ RS & PS games combined
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:55 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisbaneman
taysaun prince
shawn marion
andrei kirilenko
josh smith (i know he plays pf but he isnt one)
deshawn stevenson
luol deng
andre igudola
ron artest
thabo sefalosha (sg/sf but whatever)
dantay jones (sg/sf but whatever)
luc richard mbmbmbmbmbmbmbmah

thats just off the top of my head


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Old 10-28-2011, 01:58 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisbaneman
taysaun prince
shawn marion
andrei kirilenko
josh smith (i know he plays pf but he isnt one)
deshawn stevenson
luol deng
andre igudola
ron artest
thabo sefalosha (sg/sf but whatever)
dantay jones (sg/sf but whatever)
luc richard mbmbmbmbmbmbmbmah

thats just off the top of my head

every single guy apart from iggy from the sixers, lebron keeps his man to a lower production while on the court.
and the reason iggy is in front of him could be due to the fact lebron actually plays more minutes than iggy.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:03 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by knickswin
Lebron is a good defender in the sense that he is a boon to your team on that end of the floor because he'll at least hit rotations and get some blocks, but his man D is definitely overrated.

its apparent people dont pay attention to what lebron actually does on defense and just take note of the one flashy help play, and disregard everything else he was doing defensively on the court.

ask any heat fan, or anyone who actually closely watches the heat play, and particularly the defensive side. they'll tell you lebron is average, if not below average on rotation and helps. which also brings me to the fact that his man to man defense is superb and some of the best ever, which is why he is able to hold his man to some of the lowest production in the league, despite playing 39 minutes, and having to average 27/7/7 on the other side of the court on insane efficiency.
people wont say it now, even though it is currently true, though at the end of his career, lebron will be praised as one of the best man to man defenders ever along with scottie.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:13 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by donald_trump
its apparent people dont pay attention to what lebron actually does on defense and just take note of the one flashy help play, and disregard everything else he was doing defensively on the court.

ask any heat fan, or anyone who actually closely watches the heat play, and particularly the defensive side. they'll tell you lebron is average, if not below average on rotation and helps. which also brings me to the fact that his man to man defense is superb and some of the best ever, which is why he is able to hold his man to some of the lowest production in the league, despite playing 39 minutes, and having to average 27/7/7 on the other side of the court on insane efficiency.
people wont say it now, even though it is currently true, though at the end of his career, lebron will be praised as one of the best man to man defenders ever along with scottie.

he's really not that great at man D. If he were they would have at least tried to sick him on Dirk, but he's not really good enough against skilled midrange scorers. He gets off balance, falls for fakes, gives them too much room, stuff like that. I didn't want to open up this can of worms, but Carmelo more or less gets whatever he wants when they match up. I guess Lebron's a good man defender in the sense that he can give some guys a really hard time because of his height and lateral quickness, but against skilled guys who aren't completely physically overwhelmed by him (granted, that's a rather small pool) he's not that great.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:20 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Mound


Defensive Win Shares

2006-07 NBA 5.7 (4)
2008-09 NBA 6.5 (2)
2009-10 NBA 5.2 (3)
2010-11 NBA 5.3 (3)


Defensive Rating

2008-09 NBA 99.1 (3)

Hedo Turkoglu

94 Defensive rating in 04

Better than Camby, Artest, Kidd, Bowen, AK47, Prince....

What say you?
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:21 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickswin
he's really not that great at man D. If he were they would have at least tried to sick him on Dirk, but he's not really good enough against skilled midrange scorers. He gets off balance, falls for fakes, gives them too much room, stuff like that. I didn't want to open up this can of worms, but Carmelo more or less gets whatever he wants when they match up. I guess Lebron's a good man defender in the sense that he can give some guys a really hard time because of his height and lateral quickness, but against skilled guys who aren't completely physically overwhelmed by him (granted, that's a rather small pool) he's not that great.

when did michael jordan ever guard hakeem olajuwon? i guess he wasnt good enough.
remember that time kobe guarded howard in the finals and shut him down? yep, thats because it didnt happen.

yet all stats suggest contrary to what you are saying. they show that lebron is in fact the best defender at his position, simply at holding his man to the lowest production out of all the players at his position. over 82 games, its hard to call this coincidence. having the best defensive rating in his position as well. hard to call it coincidence. having some of the best stats at his position. hard to call it coincidence.

why is it that in all these stats lebron just happens to be among the best if not the best in the league, and certainly in his position?
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:22 AM   #41
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Syndicate
Hedo Turkoglu

94 Defensive rating in 04

Better than Camby, Artest, Kidd, Bowen, AK47, Prince....

What say you?

i love these excuses. defensive rating and per are all relative measures. they are to be measured among the peers of that season, not against different seasons. and rating has a lot to do with the team as well. if you looked at opposing player production it would state otherwise.

nice fail.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:23 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by SunsCaptain

Noice.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:24 AM   #43
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald_trump
i love these excuses. defensive rating and per are all relative measures. they are to be measured among the peers of that season, not against different seasons. and rating has a lot to do with the team as well. if you looked at opposing player production it would state otherwise.

nice fail.

Turk had a better def rating than all those players mentioned for the same season.

Say what now?

Would you say Turk was a better defender than any of those players?

My point exactly....
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

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Originally Posted by Cali Syndicate
Turk had a better def rating than all those players mentioned for the same season.

Say what now?

Would you say Turk was a better defender than any of those players?

My point exactly....

he played on the best defensive team in the league... i mentioned that in my post. the whole team had a defensive rating below 100. and as you see the best player on the team and best defender had the lowest in tim duncan.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:32 AM   #45
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Default Re: The Myth of Lebron the elite defender

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald_trump
he played on the best defensive team in the league... i mentioned that in my post. the whole team had a defensive rating below 100. and as you see the best player on the team and best defender had the lowest in tim duncan.

If the team matters then why hasn't Bruce Bowen, regarded as one of the better perimeter defenders of all time, ever made the top ten in defensive ratings?

He's played on a solid defensive team season after season after season.
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