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Old 10-30-2011, 07:28 PM   #31
knicksman
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Originally Posted by ConanRulesNBC
You didn't expect them to beat the Pacers and Hawks?

The series would gone 6 or 7 though if rose wasnt gifted with those 20+ fts.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Originally Posted by ConanRulesNBC
Plus, they got screwed a ton by the refs in that Heat series.



Please. They were close games and your man couldnt chuck enough shots in fourth quarters.

Of course they overachieved. Everything Phil said was correct.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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The series would gone 6 or 7 though if rose wasnt gifted with those 20+ fts.
'Gifted'.. if anything, Rose didn't get enough calls. It happens so often, he gets so fouled in those sick layups (and still makes them).. doesn't get a call. Just because he's one of the greatest slashers in the league right now, doesn't mean he got 'gifted' 20 free throws.

On a side note, the same thing goes for Wade in the 06 finals, people will just dig up the numbers and compare them to, say Kobe, and say 'well Wade got 5 more free throws a game then Kobe did, must have been a set up.. Maybe it's because their playing styles are different? Jump shooters vs. Slashers.. It's not that complicated.

On topic; to a certain degree we did overachieve, we got the easiest match-ups in the entire playoffs up until the Heat, kinda surprised me our shitty offense didn't get exposed earlier.

With a decent SG added the Bulls can go all the way if you ask me. Boozer's fine, he has been injured badly for the most part of last year so everybody hating on him when he was just getting back in rhythm needs to calm down. I feel like he'll have a bounce back year next year, if he can stay healthy that is.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Please. They were close games and your man couldnt chuck enough shots in fourth quarters.

Of course they overachieved. Everything Phil said was correct.

What game was it where Boozer fouled LeBron pretty hard and then the refs decided to send Miami to the free throw line like 8 more times after that for pathetic looking "fouls". The refs had a big hand in helping Miami that series.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

I think they did fine.

They had a pretty decent frontline. They also had a pretty good coach and solid players overall. They probably need another scorer to give the weight off of Rose.

I thought the frontline of the Bulls would shut down the Heat, but that wasn't the case. They just need probably one good piece then they should give more of a fight.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:02 AM   #36
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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The truth hurts bro. Offense is important to preserve your health. Having a good offense enables your team to coast on defense against the lottery teams whereas your team needs to hustle playing against them. Thats why dallas won because they are the better offensive team. Thats why pjax won 11 rings because he has offense to go along with defense. Saying defense is more important than offense is like saying defensive players like ben wallace are more important than nowitzki
Defense is more important than offense point blank.

The Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, etc...all their great teams revolved around defense.

D Howard is a better player than Dirk (That's a better comparison).

Only when Dirk had help at forward (Tyson/Marion) that played good d did he win a championship. It's not a coincidence. When the Mavs got better defensively (and their comp got old) they won.

You have no proof that more players get hurt on defense. Idk where you get that bullshit from.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:12 AM   #37
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Defense is more important than offense point blank.


You are right, but unless Boozer is a consistent scorer in the block (and I mean the block not 18 feet out) then the bulls are just cannon fodder for playoff elite teams (teams build to succeed under intense playoff pressure).
Vast majority of regular season games are played at a pathetic level of intensity by most players.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:43 AM   #38
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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You are right, but unless Boozer is a consistent scorer in the block (and I mean the block not 18 feet out) then the bulls are just cannon fodder for playoff elite teams (teams build to succeed under intense playoff pressure).
Vast majority of regular season games are played at a pathetic level of intensity by most players.


Dirk is a PF who scores consistently from 18 feet out and the Mavs had no low post threat...so why do the Bulls need what the Mavs didn't?
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:47 AM   #39
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
Dirk is a PF who scores consistently from 18 feet out and the Mavs had no low post threat...so why do the Bulls need what the Mavs didn't?

Yeah cos Booze isn't Dirk.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:52 AM   #40
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
Defense is more important than offense point blank.

The Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, etc...all their great teams revolved around defense.

D Howard is a better player than Dirk (That's a better comparison).

Only when Dirk had help at forward (Tyson/Marion) that played good d did he win a championship. It's not a coincidence. When the Mavs got better defensively (and their comp got old) they won.

You have no proof that more players get hurt on defense. Idk where you get that bullshit from.

but they also have a top 10 offense to go along with defense. Actually the average offensive rating and defensive rating of the past champions is 5th for defense and 6th for offense so yeah keep dreaming like you dont need offense coz your team will fail in the end. The reason why defense is higher because its harder to play offense.

And LOL at howard being better than dirk. You act like dirk is just becomes better this year when this guy just consistently won 50+ wins in his career. And has been to the finals twice and if wade wasnt gifted 30+ fts, he would have 2 chips by now.

Well why dont you just look at the center position if you want proof of playing defense=injuries. Noah, bynum, perkins, oden, yao, nene, shaq, etc. are all injury prones. And there are other centers too.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:53 AM   #41
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Yeah cos Booze isn't Dirk.
No shit....And Boozer isn't our #1 option either....the point I had a problem with is that Booz is expected to play under the rim at PF but Dirk is not.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:57 AM   #42
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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but they also have a top 10 offense to go along with defense. Actually the average offensive rating and defensive rating of the past champions is 5th for defense and 6th for offense so yeah keep dreaming like you dont need offense coz your team will fail in the end. The reason why defense is higher because its harder to play offense.

And LOL at howard being better than dirk. You act like dirk is just becomes better this year when this guy just consistently won 50+ wins in his career. And has been to the finals twice and if wade wasnt gifted 30+ fts, he would have 2 chips by now.

Well why dont you just look at the center position if you want proof of playing defense=injuries. Noah, bynum, perkins, oden, yao, nene, shaq, etc. are all injury prones. And there are other centers too.
1. So the average for Champions is 5th for defense and 6th for offense....whose argument does that support?

2. I never said YOU don't need OFFENSE, I said OFFENSE takes a back seat to defense....any coach will tell you that...it's why you hardly ever touch a basketball the first day of practice/camp.

3. Excuses, excuses. D. Howard, the best defensive player in the game is better than Dirk, the best offensive PF in the game.

4. Being tall and having that large a frame on over active knees is the reason centers are injury-prone. Oden got hurt standing up...he wasn't even playing ball.

Last edited by Go Getter : 10-31-2011 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:41 AM   #43
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
1. So the average for Champions is 5th for defense and 6th for offense....whose argument does that support?

2. I never said YOU don't need OFFENSE, I said OFFENSE takes a back seat to defense....any coach will tell you that...it's why you hardly ever touch a basketball the first day of practice/camp.

3. Excuses, excuses. D. Howard, the best defensive player in the game is better than Dirk, the best offensive PF in the game.

4. Being tall and having that large a frame on over active knees is the reason centers are injury-prone. Oden got hurt standing up...he wasn't even playing ball.

so the gap is only 1 so that means they are almost equally important. And offense taking a backseat? I dont think so, you need both so its up to you which to focus. All I know that there are teams that can win with defense and there are teams that can win with offense as long as youre top 10 at both. Defense is higher by 1 coz its easier to play than offense. But ill take the harder part. Defense is easier but the chances of injuries are higher on defensive teams than offensive teams.

Maybe for you howard is better than dirk. But the ring speak for itself. Its easier to be like howard than to be like dirk. Its just that nobody wants to play howard style or play defense. Players dont want to get injured banging against opposing players. Im sure howard would rather play like dirk.

well pfs are also tall yet they are less injury prones esp those offensive pfs who never cared about defense like dirk, amare, bosh.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:49 AM   #44
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

I don't get it.

Did they overachieve by winning 60+?

So what, so did the Spurs.

Did they overachieve by getting to the ECF?

Weren't they supposed to beat the Pacers, Hawks?
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:04 AM   #45
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Default Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so

Honest question...Did the Heat overachieve?

Regular season:

Bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...s/11/7/eff/7-1
Center:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball.../11/10/eff/7-1
PG:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball.../11/12/eff/7-1
PF:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...s/11/9/eff/7-1

Post season:

Bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...s/11/7/eff/8-1
Center:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball.../11/10/eff/8-1
PG:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball.../11/12/eff/8-1
PF:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...s/11/9/eff/8-1

I mean seriously?

If we look at miami vs. chicago on paper...

Bench:

Miami: 24th Chicago: 14th

Center:

Miami: 30th Chicago: 20th

PG:

Miami: 27th Chicago 2nd

PF:

Miami: 9th Chicago: 10th

SG:

Miami: 2nd Chicago: 27th

SF:

Miami: 1st Chicago: 7th

Basically if you averaged them to kinda go head to head...

Miami: 16 Chicago: 13

I mean all Miami has is a SG and SF. Wade and LeBron.

Now Dallas is even Better...

Bench: 2nd

Center: 11th

PG: 12th

PF: 6th

SG: 19th

SF: 9th

Dallas: 10 Chicago: 13 Miami: 16

Lets look at a random playoff team... Thunder?

Thunder:

Bench: 7th

Center: 28th

PG: 1st

PF: 15th

SG: 11th

SF: 3rd

Dallas: 10 Thunder: 11 Chicago: 13 Miami: 16 Boston: 17

Lower the better obviously.

Yes Miami will be a force to reckon with when they fill out their position and fill the holes. But last season? I think they were far from the best team. They basically only have two players driving that team.

Many teams could have beat them in the playoffs or finals. Dallas did beat them, Thunder could have beat them, chicago could have beat them, Boston could have beat them.

During the regular season the Heat went 2-8 VS. these 4 teams.

Last season anyone could have beat them. They were not that good but very overrated. I will say it again though...They will become quite the force once they get the right role players. LeBron and Wade can only do so much.

Just my two cents feel free to share your opinions
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