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Old 11-14-2011, 09:30 AM   #16
Jballer
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

You dont have to be a Hall of Famer to have your jersey retired by the local franchise. Its about the franchise not the league and their all time standing.

The one (two?three?) guy I would seriously consider i.e. for jersey retirement - having a big hoopla - inviting them back - making an event of it..

Certain :Alvin Williams

Highly Probable: Mo Pete (is he finally retired?)

Maybe Rasho...(unsure).

Not because of individual stats. More because of their contribution to the organization. Standing in community. Etc.

Jose ? Maybe... once he has retired and I have 5 or more years to "look back" and balance the good and the bad; how he leaves the team, if he comes back to work for the organization as an international scout, these sorts of things. You need the colling off period to determine if he played his career here with the franchises best interests in mind or otherwise.

Which is why I wouldnt retire Vince or TMac.

Last edited by Jballer : 11-14-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

I don't think anybody's jersey should be retired until this team actually wins something.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

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Originally Posted by Toni
I don't think anybody's jersey should be retired until this team actually wins something.

And we have a winner.

So far this team has only had two great players who bounced for greener pastures early-ish in their career and before winning us anything, and a bunch of mediocre players like Calderon, Mo-Pete etc. who spent their careers here only because no one else would pay them the stupid money we did. Neither of these two types deserves a jersey retirement.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

i am talking about retiring the jersey. not inducting someone into the hall of fame.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

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i am talking about retiring the jersey. not inducting someone into the hall of fame.


And Vince Carter is the only one that even deserves to mentioned for the possibility of that.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
I don't think anybody's jersey should be retired until this team actually wins something.

+1.
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

I can't believe people are even considering retiring the numbers of the likes of Alvin Williams, Mo Pete, Jose, Rasho!?

This is actually comical.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
I can't believe people are even considering retiring the numbers of the likes of Alvin Williams, Mo Pete, Jose, Rasho!?

This is actually comical.

I know right? Just because their fan favourites, doesn't mean they deserve their numbers to be retired.

Might as well add Antonio Davis, Charles Oakley, Damon Stoudemire, Donyell Marshall (he shares an NBA record with Kobe, right?), and Matt Bonner to the retirement jersey list.

At least Davis, Oakley, and Damon had notable accomplishments and took the team to new heights in their tenure.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

No mention of JYD or Keon "Buzzing at Halftime" Clark as of yet?!

Shame!
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieWoogieMan
No mention of JYD or Keon "Buzzing at Halftime" Clark as of yet?!

Shame!

Those two are Raptor legends for different reasons though
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

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Originally Posted by bada bing
i am talking about retiring the jersey. not inducting someone into the hall of fame.

I understood what you were saying, I just still find it laughable.

I do agree with Funk though: VC is the only one who should get a wiff of mention, since there was never a better time to be a raptor fan than when he was in his prime, to the extent that there was a time where whether or not he was better than Kobe was a legit discussion. That said, he shat on the franchise and outside of a couple good seasons in Jersey rapidly declined to irrelevance so retiring his number would still be received poorly to say the least.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
I can't believe people are even considering retiring the numbers of the likes of Alvin Williams, Mo Pete, Jose, Rasho!?

This is actually comical.

I dont think its comical.

I fully stated this is not about hall of fame credentials or accomplishements.

Off the top of my head - the Blue Jays retired Dave Stieb jeresey as I recall and he will never sniff the hall of fame. If the Jays retired only the jerseys of hall of famers it would be limited to 1 or 2 players - Alomar and Carter. It would exclude all the others important pieces that passed through Toronto like a Tony Fernandez.

So is Dave Steib equally laughable?? Tony ??

Or are they players that were a kind of heart and soul franchise icon that means something to the fans?? Whats so comicial about recognizing a couple of "heart and sole franchise" players in the limited history of this team?

I find it comical that some people on this board would choose to recognize Vince Carter as having some intimate connection with the franchise, and fans.

He may or may not be a Hall of Famer - but frankly he completely burned bridges here with his "I gave up".

Antonio Davis - ditto - "they taught my kids metric - Boo Hoo"
TMac - ditto - wanting to play 2nd fiddle to Grant Hill instead of VC
Cbosh - ditto - "should i stay or should I go tweet"

Bullshit - all of these guys.

At least Alvin hustled - played on bad knees - did a lot of community work (meet him in Aurora many times) and came back to coach. Also had a 'respectable career'.

MoPete is a stretch but I do have a soft spot for the guy. Also met him at a number of community events in York Region.

Last edited by Jballer : 11-15-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

How many of you guys actually live in Toronto ? Attend Jay games / Raptors game / Leaf games in tha past 10 years ?
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

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How many of you guys actually live in Toronto ? Attend Jay games / Raptors game / Leaf games in tha past 10 years ?

I was born and raised in TO and still live here. I've attended Jays and Raptors games my whole life. Comparing Dave Stieb to Alvin Williams is astonishing. The man damn near had 3 no-hitters in his time as a Jay, and converted one of them. Alvin never did anything that comparatively great. He is more McDonald than Stieb. You don't retire the number of players who were nice grinders who did good community service. You retire the jerseys of players who did great things while on your team. That's why VC is the only player who should get consideration, and even then falls short because he is and was a douche.

I like Alvin Williams as much as the next guy but come on. A team that has been as sh!t as ours has for as long as it has doesn't deserve any retired jerseys. Be real people.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: Carter and T-Mac on OTR Thursday

If there were a Raptors Hall of Fame of some sort, Alvin Williams would deserve a spot just for being a member of the team in so many different ways. He's showed some true dedication to the team. Retired number? Never. Just a nice plaque, maybe some gift certificates.
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