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Old 09-04-2012, 11:38 PM   #1
nycelt84
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Default Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

What case does Scottie Pippen really have to be ranked over Sam Jones? Jones was a member of 10 championship teams, one of the best clutch shooters to ever play the game, a fantastic defender, and the 2nd best player on at least 4 title teams.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

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Originally Posted by nycelt84
What case does Scottie Pippen really have to be ranked over Sam Jones? Jones was a member of 10 championship teams, one of the best clutch shooters to ever play the game, a fantastic defender, and the 2nd best player on at least 4 title teams.

I never heard that.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycelt84
What case does Scottie Pippen really have to be ranked over Sam Jones? Jones was a member of 10 championship teams, one of the best clutch shooters to ever play the game, a fantastic defender, and the 2nd best player on at least 4 title teams.

Rankings are subjective... but here's why Pippen has a case over Jones, without going to deep into their styles of play and respective era's.

Jones:
Better shooter
Took (and made) more clutch shots than Pippen
5 time all star
3 time all NBA 2nd team


Pippen:

More versatile offensively and defensively
Better rebounder
Much better defender (Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time)
Better passer
Arguably the 2nd best player on 6 title teams
7 time all star
7 time all NBA (3 first)


Jones was great, but not as great as Pippen in my opinion.
Also, I do not understand why Jones is always ranked above Bill Sharman... Anybody care to elaborate on that?
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toizumi
Rankings are subjective... but here's why Pippen has a case over Jones, without going to deep into their styles of play and respective era's.

Jones:
Better shooter
Took (and made) more clutch shots than Pippen
5 time all star
3 time all NBA 2nd team


Pippen:

More versatile offensively and defensively
Better rebounder
Much better defender (Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time)
Better passer
Arguably the 2nd best player on 6 title teams
7 time all star
7 time all NBA (3 first)


Jones was great, but not as great as Pippen in my opinion.
Also, I do not understand why Jones is always ranked above Bill Sharman... Anybody care to elaborate on that?

I'm not even sure you can really call Pippen a better rebounder than Jones since Jones was a great rebounder for his position. Jones was a better shooter and scorer and well and you left out that he was arguably the 2nd best player on 4-5 title teams as well as being an integral part of 10 title teams.

Why Jones is ranked higher than Sharman that's another discussion. But I do think that Sharman is one of the most underrated players of all time and also one of the most underrated basketball minds of all time. It's a shame that Jerry West usually gets the credit that belongs to him for building the 80's Lakers dynasty.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycelt84
I'm not even sure you can really call Pippen a better rebounder than Jones since Jones was a great rebounder for his position. Jones was a better shooter and scorer and well and you left out that he was arguably the 2nd best player on 4-5 title teams as well as being an integral part of 10 title teams.

Jones has nice rebounding numbers, but he wasn't as strong a rebounder, playmaker, passer as Pippen was offensively. Pippen was more versatile and could play 4 positions effectively. Jones' role was being the scorer, which he was great at, but his numbers aren't much better than Pippen's overall. For the regular season, both had four seasons over 20PPG, with Pippen really stepping it up in Jordan's absence, leading his team in scoring and all other major stats.
Jones' playoff scoring is above and beyond Pippen's, but again, Pippen was better in all other aspects. His percentages, overall, are also better.

Thing is, Sharman did the same thing Jones did for the Celtics. Their roles consisted of scoring buckets. Jones took over from Sharman when Sharman's role diminished and did the exact same thing Sharman did. I think that every talented scorer, a la Mitch Richmond could've played the same role they did, which was get open/create for themselves and score. A big role yes, but there have been more great scorers that couldve done the same I think. The Celtics had a strong "supporting cast", and yes, so did the Bulls, but it is not comparable in my opinion.

Also, defensively, Pippen is on a whole different level. Arguably the greatest ever on the perimeter. He could guard multiple positions and was a nightmare for offensive players. He had a great defensive team around him, but it cant be denied that he's a top tier defense player of all time. Jones, not so much.


Yes, Jones was a key part of more title teams, but that alone doesn't make him a better player. He does not have the same individual level of play, or individual credentials to show for (all nba selections, statistics). In terms of team succes, both of them were part of great dynasties. But Pip was clearly the no. 2 player on all championship teams next to Jordan. Jones has competition from Russell, Hondo, Cousy, Sharman, (Heinsohn even?).
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Old Yesterday, 06:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

Sam Jones was better shooter,one on one player,clutch player . And he had better ball handling and more creative scoring .

But Pippen had rebounding,defence,playmaking over Sam Jones . This comparison looks like Reggie vs Pippen to me . And Pippen was better impact on the court in my mind . Pippen is around top 30-35 goat . Sam is 40-50 .

Above poster mentioned Why Sam mentioned above Sharman . That's clear in my mind . Fastest pace is 57-62 era (125-130 poss a game). And Bill Sharman had 20-3-3 with average defence in that era . Sam's prime in 63-67 era . 63-67 era had 110-115 poss a game in playoffs . And He had 25-30 points in some series , with way better defending than Sharman and slightly better shooting . Also , With more versatile game . Sharman wasn't better than Heinsohn . And Heinsohn has no case for top 50 too .
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Old Yesterday, 07:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen vs Sam Jones

Sam Jones has to be one of the most underrated greats ever. He was without a doubt one of THE most clutch players ever. Cousy and Sharman was there for the beginning and Havlicek at the tail end but besides Russell, Jones was the longest tenured member of that dynasty. I don't know if anyone has the numbers but his scoring average in game 7s, like Russell, must be very impressive.
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