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Old 12-29-2006, 10:24 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by i seen hippos
Heilige, isn't that girl a little too scantily clad for a God fearing Republican?


Isn't being on a internet website like yourself against the beliefs your God, Lenin espouses?
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:25 PM   #62
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Saddam has just been hanged. Offical from ABC News.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by i seen hippos
Lenin > Bush Sr and Jr.

Yes you did say that Baby Jesus.


Go ahead and keep supporting genocidal dictators. I believe you are a threat to others. The fact that you support such a man like him.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:39 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Heilige
Go ahead and keep supporting genocidal dictators. I believe you are a threat to others. The fact that you support such a man like him.

I love genocidal dictators. They keep it real.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:42 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Heilige
There were economic sanctioncs that were used.

The sanctions crippled the Iraqi economy during the time they were imposed; much of Iraq’s infrastructure ran into disrepair from lack of materials and Iraq's capacity for aggression was all but destroyed. The initial purpose of the sanctions, and of all diplomatic sanctions, was to force Iraq's hand in cooperation with the United Nations and possibly cause a change in its previously aggressive foreign policy and abuses of human rights.

Critics of the sanctions say that over a million Iraqis, disproportionately children, died as a result of them, [5] although certain skeptics incorrectly claim the numbers to be less. [6] [7] [8] UNICEF has put the number of child deaths to 500,000.[9] The reasons include lack of medical supplies, malnutrition, and especially disease owing to lack of clean water. Among other things, chlorine, needed for disinfecting water supplies, was banned as having a "dual use" in potential weapons manufacture. On May 10, 1996, appearing on 60 Minutes, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) was presented with a figure of half a million children under five having died from the sanctions. Not challenging this figure, she infamously replied "we think the price is worth it", though she later rued the comment as "stupid."[10]

Denis Halliday was appointed United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Baghdad, Iraq as of 1 September 1997, at the Assistant Secretary-General level. In October 1998 he resigned after a 34 year career with the UN in order to have the freedom to criticise the sanctions regime, saying "I don't want to administer a programme that satisfies the definition of genocide". Halliday's successor, Hans von Sponeck, subsequently also resigned in protest. Jutta Burghardt, head of the World Food Program in Iraq, followed them. According to von Sponeck, the sanctions restricted Iraqis to living on $100 each of imports per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sa..._the_sanctions

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The war on terror isn't exlucsive to Al Qaeda and bin laden. Countries like Iraq who randomly slaughtered innocnet people and gave money to terrorists are a part of that as well. Iraq was a problem that was going to have to be dealt with sooner or later, obviously Bush wasn't a procrastinator.

If we really wanted to put an end to terrorism and those who supported them, we should have gone after the Saudi and Pakistani governments. And if Bush cares so much about people being slaughtered, why aren't we doing more in Darfur?

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Iraq had vioalted every UN resoultion regarding them in the past decade, kicked UN inspectors out, violating an agreement they signed with the US to end the war.

Sounds kind of like Israel, to be honest.

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What do you suppose would happen if after a murderer was convicted, he was just let go? He'd think he could get away with it, as would the people observing it.

What do you suppose would happen if someone lied to the American public and claimed Iraq had WMD? Or what if he was spying on innocent Americans? Or what if he allowed prisoners to be tortured? What if those prisoners were innocent?

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There has to be consequences for your actions, otherwise there will be anarchy. The rules need to be enforced.

I agree!

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Since Saddam had been equipping Al-Qaida with funds and chemical weapons for over eight years now, knowing full well that they intended to use those resources to kill Americans, it seems to me like we have had a valid pretext for war since 9/11. Maybe sooner when you consider all the preceding attacks against the USS Cole, our embassies in Africa, their involvement in Somolia, ect.

Wtf are you talking about? Saddam never supported al Qaeda. He did however give money to families of Palestinian "martyrs" (suicide bombers, people killed in combat, etc.) Furthermore, chemical weapons are really only useful in trench warfare. How many people were killed during Desert Storm due to chemical weapons? And that was when he actually had them!

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Every country has a responsibility to protects it's people.

And herein lies the problem: America has become the bully. Why is it OK for us to protect ourselves but not others?

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Iraq has violated every UN resolution that has been made involving them since the Gulf War.

Including kicking the US inspectors out of the country. Why? Because they US inspectors could find where the weapons were hidden.

That was a strategic move. Do you think Saddam wanted Iran, Kuwait, the Kurds and his own retaliating against him once they found out how powerless he was? Furthermore, we DID have inspections before the war. And guess what? They didn't find any weapons. Kind of like now, after the war.

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The US threatened to take action against Iraq if the UN neglected it's responsibility. Imposing sanctions on the country and then doing nothing but sitting back and watching people die for five years just isn't gonna cut it.

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Also, I'd point out that in 1998 Clinton threatened a war with Iraq when Saddam kicked inspectors out. He was of course called a war mongerer and convinced to just sanction the country to death which didn't help us get rid of all of his weapons. Since 1998 a conflict with Iraq has been a consideration, it wasn't something that Bush just woke up and decided one day.

Of course not. PNAC had been planning this for ages. They wanted Iraq. 9/11 was just the excuse that allowed them to do it. Again, we would have been better off cleaning up Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. There are far more Osama bin Laden fans in high position in Pakistan then there ever were in Iraq. Oh, and Pakistan has a nuclear bomb. I hope you feel safer now that we invaded Iraq, I sure do!

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I don't believe any leader of a country would sacrifice the security and safety of his people to comply with the UN.

Maybe that was Saddam's thinking. Heck, if you look at Iraq now, it would appear he was smart to do whatever it took to stay in power. Right?

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Fact: Saddam Hussein had been supporting terrorism for years now, and continues to do so before the war.

Again, besides "martyrs", who was he supporting? He didn't support al Qaeda. al Qaeda is a religious fundamentalist organization of Salafi/Wahhabi/Qutbist followers. Saddam's regime was secular. The Baathist party HATED al Qaeda.

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The debate over whether or not Iraq does or doesn`t have WMD is arbitrary, even if Iraq doesn`t they were still in violation of international law anyways.

No, it's not. Quit making **** up. You're disgraceful. "The argument of whether or not Saddam could have killed us all is irrelevant. Sure, it served as a precursor to war, but who cares? The point is.. he violated international law."

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The resolution called for a declaration of all the Iraqi weapons. They did gave us a declaration, however failure to comply with the order to declare all weapons is a material breach. We know it's a breach because the declaration was outdated based on the inspections that ended in 1998.

Which weapons did they find? The ones buried? From the Iraq-Iran war? The ones that were useless? About as harmful as the cleaning supplies under your kitchen sink? Those ones?

Quote:
If a judge orders a company to turn over accounting documents and they only hand over the non-incriminating documents, that company will be in deep ****. That's basic justice.

Basically what the Bush administration has been doing for the past 6 years.

Last edited by reppy : 12-29-2006 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:03 PM   #66
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Saddam didn't "randomly" slaughter his citizens. He had very good reasons, they were enemies of the state! He had to set an example, or they would get away with anything! First he tried starving them, but that didn't work out because they sold oil on the black market, then he got out the gas and that shut em up right quick. Not fair, you say? Well, that's what happens if you cross a demagogue, haven't you learned anything from history? If you don't like it, pack up and leave! Oh, what's that, America doesn't want you, Australia doesn't even let you in their waters? ****, buddy, you're ****ed.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:04 PM   #67
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Comparing Iraq and Nazi Germany is just so damn brutally stupid.

WWII really served a just cause, whereas every single war the USA fought in afterwards was just pretense to further the American economy. Like it or not, the USA has become the world's number one force and can pretty much do what they damn well like. They attacked and conquered Iraq under false pretense (there never were "weapons of mass destruction"), and for that reason alone the US leaders should be punished, which of course won't happen.

History is always written by the winners. Hussein gets killed, and perhaps justifiably so, but in a just world with any sense of decency Bush and his cronies would also get the rope. **** wars for economy.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:04 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by lakers_forever
A war? It was a massacre . Like a lion killing a small cat.

I hate to say this, but what the hell are you talking about? The Americans have not done the bulk of the killing. Most of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi. Civilians have the highest death toll (over 90% of the casualties).

I'm not defending US actions in Iraq. They did create the situation that led to sectarian violence, but US soldiers have not done the majority of the killings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
There are economic sanctions that a country can suffer. A war should always be the last option, if it is an option really.

While I agree that war should be a last option, economic sanctions really don't work. Iraq has been exposed to economic sanctions for years, and the only people it hurt were the poor and hungry Iraqis.

Diplomacy would have been a much better option. If war was inevidible, it would have been nice if it was planned much better. The Iraq war was based on too many fatal assumptions. The key mistake was the belief that if the US did not try to secure the area, not only would they not be viewed as occupiers, they would be met as liberators. Quite obviously, this did not happen.

Any way, good to see Saddam go. There's no doubt in my mind that he was a murderer and war criminal.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:06 PM   #69
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Let's get back to the real important part of this thread....

Mike Fratello!!!!

I mean, is he gonna go back to TNT? I need INFO!!!!!
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:10 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bagelred
Let's get back to the real important part of this thread....

Mike Fratello!!!!

I mean, is he gonna go back to TNT? I need INFO!!!!!

He should be executed for NOT using weapons of mass destruction AKA Hakim Warrick.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:12 PM   #71
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Quote:
Mike Fratello!!!!

I mean, is he gonna go back to TNT? I need INFO!!!!!

My sources tell me that the Grizz are trying to wrap up a deal that would send Pau to TNT in exchange for Reggie's sister and Steve Kerr. Seriously, wouldn't that be awesome?

edit: after TNT signs Fratello, of course.

Last edited by eboloid : 12-29-2006 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:13 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy
If we really wanted to put an end to terrorism and those who supported them, we should have gone after the Saudi and Pakistani governments. And if Bush cares so much about people being slaughtered, why aren't we doing more in Darfur?

Bush isn't doing anything in Darfur for many reasons. One reason, though, is because he hopes that the Government of Sudan will help with the War on Terror. Al Bashir is a war criminal and a known supporter of terrorism. Bush is willing to turn a blind eye in order to gain cooperation and also try to secure a lasting peace between North and South Sudan.

That being said, the US has called for UN action in Darfur, although that may be an empty request. I don't think the US really wants to send more troops into another Muslim country. The US isn't the only country that has basically ignored Darfur. The only troops in Darfur are the African Union (because that is all that Sudan will allow). France has said that they will send troops if Sudan agrees, but Sudan will never do that. There have been numerous requests for a no-fly zone, but that hasn't happened. Pretty much the entire world is trying to ignore it.
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Old 12-30-2006, 11:46 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eboloid
My sources tell me that the Grizz are trying to wrap up a deal that would send Pau to TNT in exchange for Reggie's sister and Steve Kerr. Seriously, wouldn't that be awesome?

edit: after TNT signs Fratello, of course.

It seems almost guaranteed that the Czar will be joining Marv and Kerr back in the booth, doesn't it? They probably kept his seat warm waiting for his return. Let the Telestrator jokes begin!!!
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Old 12-30-2006, 02:10 PM   #74
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Moderator, why is this topic moved? It's about Mike Fratello.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:40 PM   #75
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It's a shame that Bush wasn't hung to death with him.
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