Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Los Angeles Lakers Forum

Los Angeles Lakers Forum Los Angeles Lakers message board - los angeles lakers fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2006, 04:50 AM   #61
Sandjo
Can barely lace up my sneakers
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 27
Sandjo has an OK reputation so far
Default re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Swerski
Comparison does not mean equal fam.

You're speaking to an official Jordan fan, from the chi.

Kobe is the only legitimate comparible to Jordan.

Kobe has many of the physical attributes, none, I repeat, none of the mental/decision-makin/clarity of focus/concetration attributes that Michael had.

Michael had more intangibles than Joe Montana & Wayne Gretzky combined.

Not to mention Kobe %ages, and assists/assist timing/team play get murdered & sh!t upon by Jordan's %ages assists/timing of assists/team play...

He is still worthy of comparison, Phil is proper.


Well... okay, but if you stop looking at the total package and judge things by particular abilities on the basketball court... then you can just as well say that Wade, LeBron, even Carter and AI are worthy of comparison
Sandjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 05:01 AM   #62
Bill Swerski
 
Posts: n/a
Default

By particular abilities everybody sh!ts on everybody @ some point.

Kobe is the only human right now worthy of real, true, as you say "total package" comparison.

Lebron and Wade will get there, but not for @ least 7 more years.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 05:19 AM   #63
Sandjo
Can barely lace up my sneakers
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 27
Sandjo has an OK reputation so far
Default re

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Swerski
By particular abilities everybody sh!ts on everybody @ some point.

Kobe is the only human right now worthy of real, true, as you say "total package" comparison.

Lebron and Wade will get there, but not for @ least 7 more years.




From you own statements, the only aspects you can consider when comparing Kobe to Mike are his physical attributes. It's obvious, from the reasons mentioned above, that team success can not be taken into account (Wade would already have at least a similar argument by leading Miami to the title). As a pure offensive weapon, Kobe is amazing, the past season was proof of that. But even if we only look at this aspect, Wade and LeBron are, practically, on the same page. They've both had amazing performances throughout the playoffs while leading their respective teams, so what makes Kobe stand out?

And if we're talking physical attributes and individual game - even if I might agree that Kobe is the best offensive weapon in the game, as a "Jordan fan back from chi", you still shouldn't compare them: Jordan was an incredible defender his entire career, Kobe is an average one at best.

There's no real argument in your posts to support Kobe being more "worthy" of a comparison to MJ than Wade and LeBron (and as I said, I don't think any such comparison is warranted).
Sandjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 06:14 AM   #64
itsmedamien
I airball my layups
 
itsmedamien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29
itsmedamien has an OK reputation so far
Default .............

Quote:
Jordan was an incredible defender his entire career, Kobe is an average one at best.

I'm sorry, but

you seriously have to explain to me how Kobe is only an average defender at best.
itsmedamien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 06:54 AM   #65
Sandjo
Can barely lace up my sneakers
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 27
Sandjo has an OK reputation so far
Default re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmedamien
I'm sorry, but

you seriously have to explain to me how Kobe is only an average defender at best.



Kobe has been torched left and right his entire career, this has already been debated on ISH for years. He's had some good defensive efforts (and some abismal ones), but those are exceptions. He's an average defender, nothing more.
Sandjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 09:00 AM   #66
sic
Decent playground baller
 
sic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 331
sic has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandjo


Kobe has been torched left and right his entire career, this has already been debated on ISH for years. He's had some good defensive efforts (and some abismal ones), but those are exceptions. He's an average defender, nothing more.

sic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 09:46 AM   #67
Rasheed1
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Rasheed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 10,507
Rasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation hereRasheed1 has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:


Disagree. Kobe in 2004 had a Shaq who was in decline, but unwilling to admit it, or to accept a lesser role as the focal point. So, in those instances when Kobe tried to take over games, particularly those games that they lost, the analysis tended to be that "they're not getting the ball to Shaq enough." Combined with Shaq's loud crying about needing the ball more and a lot of armchair psychoanalysis from stupid people about Kobe only caring about his shots, this gave the impression that Kobe was sabotaging the team, when in fact he was trying to do what was needed to get W's, namely, take over the bulk of the scoring load for a less effective, less dominant Shaq.

You actually heard the same kind of thing early on in this series, when the Heat were down there was a lot of talk about them having to adjust their gameplan to dump the ball down low. In fact, it was only over the course of the series that it became clear that Wade was driving the offense. Shaq's meek acceptance of this (combined with a Wade-adoring media that assumed the best (that Wade wanted to win instead of sabotage Shaq/put up a lot of points etc.) had a lot to do with how things are now viewed in hindsight.

If you really understood what the heat were doing, then it is easy to understand why kobe failed in 2004 and why Wade succeeded this past post season...

Getting Shaq the ball was still the key....Getting Shaq the ball is the control that kept the Mavs D on its heals the last 4 games...Even tho Wade took over the series, the heat kept periodically going back to Shaq in the paint in order to keep the Mavs honest and not switch up the D to swarm Wade.Getting the ball to Shaq was akin to the the run game/playaction fake effect in football. Even tho Shaq wasnt scoring, he was still making the defense double and compromise itself when he recieved the ball...The Mavs had to continue to respect his presence.....They could never fully go away from worrying about Shaq in the post....You obviously cant double Shaq & Wade at the same time....Wade and the Heat were patient....Wade didnt score at all in the 1st Qtr. of game 6....but he wound up with 30 something pts and 10 boards..They all were on the same page.

Kobe on the other seemed to be breaking off plays and doing his own thing in 2004...It doesnt seem anybody (including Phil) was sure of what kobe was doing out there....it wasnt a controlled team effort to help kobe shine, it was kobe deciding himself that it was time to shine. If wade would have been just jacking up shots without establishing the fact that they will give the ball to Shaq if you dont respect his his presence, the heat would lost as bad as the lakers did in 2004....


And as far as Shaq goes, he wasnt showing on pick and rolls or rebounding like he shouldve, but he was dominating ben wallace in single coverage and should have seen the ball a whole lot more in that last finals appearance with the lakers
Rasheed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2006, 10:11 AM   #68
itsmedamien
I airball my layups
 
itsmedamien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29
itsmedamien has an OK reputation so far
Default ..........

Quote:
Kobe has been torched left and right his entire career, this has already been debated on ISH for years. He's had some good defensive efforts (and some abismal ones), but those are exceptions. He's an average defender, nothing more.

Keep telling yourself that buddy. Those damn writers who voted him to 6 all-defensive teams must not being seeing the same thing you're seeing. Being average doesn't garner you that type of recognition. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with your assessment.
itsmedamien is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy