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Old 12-15-2011, 04:59 AM   #31
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

chandler/melo/fields is a strong rebounding core
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:17 AM   #32
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

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Originally Posted by Rameek
How many drafted Knicks are starting in the league or even contributors on teams?

Landry Fields.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:32 AM   #33
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

^ and Gallo and Ariza and Lee and Nene and Frye.

But there's also peaks of drafting brilliance such as Jordan Hill, Mardy Collins and Sweetney as 1st round picks
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:38 AM   #34
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Well I am holding them to the standard of LBJ and Wade. I have read here in the past where both these guys are considered Elite. DIRK is the Mavs offense and he rebounds well for a jump shooter. Also you cant win with 2 superstars that can play defense when they want to or not at all. It effects the other members of the team and makes the team defense terrible. It makes the individual defense terrible. You cant have those kind of leaks and expect to win.

Amar'e and Melo are not LeBron and Wade, and our two guys haven't had the luxury of even playing on a team that even remotely emphasized defense, wheras Lebron's Cavs and Wade's Heat were very solid defensive TEAMS.

But I do and will hold them accountable now especially when they have pieces that could vital to a contender.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
That goes for rebounding as well. Amare does not make an effort to get rebounds. So you're ok with Amare getting 3 offensive rebounds for put backs in a game as well as collecting about 5 defensive rebounds from opponents misses? So you're ok with Melo getting 1 offensive rebound for a put back as many times as he shoots the pill in a game as well as collecting about 6 defensive rebounds from opponents misses? I expect more from them but you dont have to.

I do find it ironic that you find Dirk to be a good rebounder when he yet to average double digit rebounds in any season.

And has never got more than 1 offensive board on average in any season, but you criticize Amar'e for it.

Amar'e has always been in a system that tells him to take his jumper, and head back the other way.

As far as rebounding with Melo goes, he is only second to LeBron as a SF, so I see no legit way you can argue that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
All of you can settle for lack of effort, intensity, and expectation from the team leaders who are suppose to be ALL-STARS or ELITE. I guess you all are looking for ENTERTAINMENT and not CHAMPIONSHIPS.

The sport is entertainment, and yes I would like to see the Knicks win a championship, and I do believe these guys know they have a legit shot now.

But it is entertainment.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasi
^ and Gallo and Ariza and Lee and Nene and Frye.

But there's also peaks of drafting brilliance such as Jordan Hill, Mardy Collins and Sweetney as 1st round picks

Even Chandler started for Denver after we traded him.

@ Rameek for even asking that one.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:28 AM   #36
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Let me preface my comments by saying LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh are better than Amare, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler (I know right....duhhhh ) The thing that get's me however, is when comparing these guys, people always want to mention what the Heat guys do that the Knicks guys don't. Nobody ever mentions what our guys do that the Heat guys don't. Sure we don't hustle,pass or rebound all the time. We also don't choke in big game situations. We also don't shy away from big moments and Melo is arguably top 3 most clutch players in the game. We don't get bullied. We actually play better on nights when we are face with an elite matchup (ex Melo vs LBJ, Melo vs Celtics, Amare vs Heat pre-trade). Furthermore, our defense has actually been it's best in big games. So to ppl that constantly want to compare #1 Just because a guy isnt Wade or LeBron doesn't mean they don't deserve a max deal. These guys are elite IMO because ANYTIME we play those guys, we have a legit shot at beating them. Name 5 players other than Melo that can matchup with LeBron and bust his ass. Name 5 big men other than Amare than can make Bosh look like an amateur on any given night. Our team isn't elite, and our guys haven't been consistent on both ends. We don't have LeBron, Melo and Wade. But you know what, neither does every other team not named the Heat. I wanted LeBron like almost every other Knicks fan BUT Melo and Amare are the only guys who can make me completely care less that we didnt get those guys (maybe KD too). So I said all that to say this...PHUKK the Heat! If we get a pg in here who can play and we start playing defense...we can beat ANYONE!
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:31 AM   #37
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Let me preface my comments by saying LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh are better than Amare, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler (I know right....duhhhh ) The thing that get's me however, is when comparing these guys, people always want to mention what the Heat guys do that the Knicks guys don't. Nobody ever mentions what our guys do that the Heat guys don't. Sure we don't hustle,pass or rebound all the time. We also don't choke in big game situations. We also don't shy away from big moments and Melo is arguably top 3 most clutch players in the game. We don't get bullied. We actually play better on nights when we are face with an elite matchup (ex Melo vs LBJ, Melo vs Celtics, Amare vs Heat pre-trade). Furthermore, our defense has actually been it's best in big games. So to ppl that constantly want to compare #1 Just because a guy isnt Wade or LeBron doesn't mean they don't deserve a max deal. These guys are elite IMO because ANYTIME we play those guys, we have a legit shot at beating them. Name 5 players other than Melo that can matchup with LeBron and bust his ass. Name 5 big men other than Amare than can make Bosh look like an amateur on any given night. Our team isn't elite, and our guys haven't been consistent on both ends. We don't have LeBron, Melo and Wade. But you know what, neither does every other team not named the Heat. I wanted LeBron like almost every other Knicks fan BUT Melo and Amare are the only guys who can make me completely care less that we didnt get those guys (maybe KD too). So I said all that to say this...PHUKK the Heat! If we get a pg in here who can play and we start playing defense...we can beat ANYONE!

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Old 12-15-2011, 09:37 AM   #38
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Let me preface my comments by saying LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh are better than Amare, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler (I know right....duhhhh ) The thing that get's me however, is when comparing these guys, people always want to mention what the Heat guys do that the Knicks guys don't. Nobody ever mentions what our guys do that the Heat guys don't. Sure we don't hustle,pass or rebound all the time. We also don't choke in big game situations. We also don't shy away from big moments and Melo is arguably top 3 most clutch players in the game. We don't get bullied. We actually play better on nights when we are face with an elite matchup (ex Melo vs LBJ, Melo vs Celtics, Amare vs Heat pre-trade). Furthermore, our defense has actually been it's best in big games. So to ppl that constantly want to compare #1 Just because a guy isnt Wade or LeBron doesn't mean they don't deserve a max deal. These guys are elite IMO because ANYTIME we play those guys, we have a legit shot at beating them. Name 5 players other than Melo that can matchup with LeBron and bust his ass. Name 5 big men other than Amare than can make Bosh look like an amateur on any given night. Our team isn't elite, and our guys haven't been consistent on both ends. We don't have LeBron, Melo and Wade. But you know what, neither does every other team not named the Heat. I wanted LeBron like almost every other Knicks fan BUT Melo and Amare are the only guys who can make me completely care less that we didnt get those guys (maybe KD too). So I said all that to say this...PHUKK the Heat! If we get a pg in here who can play and we start playing defense...we can beat ANYONE!

Yeah.
Also, I am not SO sure about your preface... is LeBron REALLY better than Melo? Ok he probably is, but let's talk about 4th quarters, when it really matters: LeBron quits, Melo fkin' WINS games.

Anyways.
I would also add that having a 3-4-5 "star" core is way better than having a 2-3-4 "star" core.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:49 AM   #39
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasi
Yeah.
Also, I am not SO sure about your preface... is LeBron REALLY better than Melo? Ok he probably is, but let's talk about 4th quarters, when it really matters: LeBron quits, Melo fkin' WINS games.

Anyways.
I would also add that having a 3-4-5 "star" core is way better than having a 2-3-4 "star" core.

I agree with the 3-4-5 being better.

But that puts pressure on the 1-2 to at least be decent.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:44 AM   #40
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Let's just say Kobe won with shaq alone
And we have our Kobe in melo and our shaq in amare/chandler
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:06 AM   #41
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

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Originally Posted by bluechox2
Let's just say Kobe won with shaq alone
And we have our Kobe in melo and our shaq in amare/chandler

When did he win alone?

and thats not even a fair comparison because individually shaq and kobe were much better. They were dominant.

The knicks have set themselves to be a top 10 team for 3 years and then suck for 4 and do it again.

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Old 12-15-2011, 11:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Franchize there are many players that gets max deals who arent deserving but this is a free market thats how it goes. I mentioned the money because we gave 2 guys max deals but had they taken less they could have added a CP3. Wade LBJ are a great comparison they have been to the finals one has won a championship. You want clutch players and no championships or finals so be it.

I have no problem knowing that Stat and Melo should do better as rebounders, defenders, hustling, and effort NIGHTLY. If I am the only one so be it. I dont mind being on that island (with Revis).

You all can settle for their efforts that you have seen and be entertained by that brand of offense only basketball.

To each their own.

Its the same way I always said the Knicks need to win to get people here or over pay. The counter arguments were people want to play for the coach, people will take less to play with a superstar or two, play at MSG, or NYC.

I will stand on my square alone.

The draft picks was mentioned that the Knicks dont do the best job drafting overall. You take away a 1st round pick every other year and you dont draft well its hard to get a resurgence on the roster.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:24 AM   #43
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

But I will say this if Jerome jordan become more like deandre jordan, and fields/TD mature and become consisten this team can be in the running to win right there along with heat or bulls. The lakers are going to win it this year then the heat and bulls will battle out the few years after that.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:51 AM   #44
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
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But I will say this if Jerome jordan become more like deandre jordan, and fields/TD mature and become consisten this team can be in the running to win right there along with heat or bulls. The lakers are going to win it this year then the heat and bulls will battle out the few years after that.
How are the Lakers going to win it this year when they lost players and gained no one?
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: Adjustments the Knicks Must Make to be Elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Let me preface my comments by saying LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh are better than Amare, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler (I know right....duhhhh ) The thing that get's me however, is when comparing these guys, people always want to mention what the Heat guys do that the Knicks guys don't. Nobody ever mentions what our guys do that the Heat guys don't. Sure we don't hustle,pass or rebound all the time. We also don't choke in big game situations. We also don't shy away from big moments and Melo is arguably top 3 most clutch players in the game. We don't get bullied. We actually play better on nights when we are face with an elite matchup (ex Melo vs LBJ, Melo vs Celtics, Amare vs Heat pre-trade). Furthermore, our defense has actually been it's best in big games. So to ppl that constantly want to compare #1 Just because a guy isnt Wade or LeBron doesn't mean they don't deserve a max deal. These guys are elite IMO because ANYTIME we play those guys, we have a legit shot at beating them. Name 5 players other than Melo that can matchup with LeBron and bust his ass. Name 5 big men other than Amare than can make Bosh look like an amateur on any given night. Our team isn't elite, and our guys haven't been consistent on both ends. We don't have LeBron, Melo and Wade. But you know what, neither does every other team not named the Heat. I wanted LeBron like almost every other Knicks fan BUT Melo and Amare are the only guys who can make me completely care less that we didnt get those guys (maybe KD too). So I said all that to say this...PHUKK the Heat! If we get a pg in here who can play and we start playing defense...we can beat ANYONE!



this post made me cry. up there with the MLK speech.
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