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Old 01-19-2012, 01:01 AM   #61
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

I personally have my doubts about Perry Jones and Sullinger in the NBA. I don't know if Jones is going to have a position much like Anthony Randolph. I realize he has his athleticism but does he do one single thing at a very good level? I haven't seen it and the #'s don't show it either.

With Sullinger, my concerns are more about his ceiling which might be totally unfair. I think he's going to be a productive scorer but just doesn't have that star potential. Elton Brand minus the defense? A better rebounding David West? Obviously still a very good player but I don't want the Raptors to draft him.

I've always liked Barnes and still do, especially for the Raptors but lately I'm getting worried about his ability to create his own offense. I'd still have him in the group of 3 (MKG, Drummond, Barnes) behind Davis.

Last edited by Qwyjibo : 01-19-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:03 AM   #62
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter
Do you know what his actual height is?

6'10 - 6'11".

He's a legit 270 already though, and his athleticism for that size is off the charts.

Originally from Mt Vernon, so hopefully one day he will be a Knick.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:06 AM   #63
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
See, I think this class is deep enough to where you don't necessarily need a top 2 pick to land the potentially final piece of a rebuild. What separates this class from last year's class, imo, isn't at the top.

Kyrie Irving will prove to be a more than adequate No. 1 pick in any draft class. The real luck for the Cavs was getting No. 1 last year. The difference between No. 1 and the rest of the lottery was massive, imo.

This year, there are those elite guys at the top again, but there is also incredible depth (assuming everyone comes out). If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, you are getting a potentially elite prospect.

Let's say it goes...

1. Drummond
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Perry Jones
5. Sullinger
6. Jeremy Lamb
7. Thomas Robinson
8. Kidd-Gilchrist

...are you going to complain about any of those guys?

That's not even mentioning Bradley Beal, Henson, Austin Rivers, Terrance Jones, Meyers Leonard... this draft is one of the deepest in memory.

What a yummy draft class.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:14 AM   #64
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
I personally have my doubts about Perry Jones and Sullinger in the NBA. I don't know if Jones is going to have a position much like Anthony Randolph. I realize he has his athleticism but does he do one single thing at a very good level? I haven't seen it and the #'s don't show it either.

With Sullinger, my concerns are more about his ceiling which might be totally unfair. I think he's going to be a productive scorer but just doesn't have that star potential. Elton Brand minus the defense? A better rebounding David West?

I've always liked Barnes and still do, especially for the Raptors but lately I'm getting worried about his ability to create his own offense. I'd still have him in the group of 3 (MKG, Drummond, Barnes) behind Davis.
I agree about Perry Jones. He is the kind of guy that could be great, but he just does not seem to have the kind of assertive personality that you need to reach that elite level. When I watch Baylor, he will disappear for long stretches which should absolutely not happen with a guy as naturally gifted as him against college guys that don't have 1/10th of the natural athleticism. That definitely worries me and I fear a Tim Thomas clone at times.

Still, his natural talent and skill alone will be enough for a GM to snag him early and believe that they can bring that aggressiveness out of him... And they may do it. I just really don't want the Cavs to be the guinea pigs in that project which is why I favor a guy like MKG over him.

Sullinger has limited upside, let's be honest. He is what he is... A very skilled, undersized 4 that is going to give you intensity on the boards and a good amount of offense, but he isn't going to become Karl Malone or that kind of elite 4 under any circumstances, imo. I also want nothing to do with him in this draft, but luckily, we addressed the 4 spot last year with Thompson (who has a ton more upside, imo)... I bet that some GM does take him in the top 5, though. Watch and see.

I loved Barnes as a prospect last year, but I am starting to worry about his ability to create off the dribble, like you. He has a great natural stroke and will be a good off-the-ball scorer in the NBA, for sure. The question is, does he have enough natural athleticism to be a dominant scoring wing that can carry a team on that end of the floor? I have my doubts. Still, I wouldn't complain if the Cavs were able to somehow get him. Playing alongside Kyrie would get him a ton of open looks and he is a knock-down shooter from anywhere on the floor.

The weaknesses in these guys is part of the reason I'm so high on MKG. I just don't see an area where I say, "Wow, he is going to struggle with that in the NBA." To me, he oozes prototypical NBA talent. His biggest problems right now are things that are completely fixable on the next level like his shooting mechanics and footwork in the post. He has the athleticism, the size, is a defensive monster and is a gym rat.

It is going to go Drummond/Davis in some order at the top if they both come out. After that, you have a lot of very interesting prospects that offer uniquely different skillsets. I'm not sure what your Raps really need. Assuming Jonas is as good as I think he will be, a scoring wing?


I also really, really like Lamb, btw.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:14 AM   #65
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I think he could play either spot. He is athletic enough and a good enough defender to stay with 2s and his offensive game will eventually be refined enough to fill that kind of role, imo. At 6-foot-7, he would be very difficult for 2s to deal with on the other side of the ball, because he has been working on his post play.

I think he is more naturally at 3 at this stage of the game, though, and his 7-foot wingspan makes up for any height problems on the next level. His raw athleticism and large frame would probably make him a SF at the start of his career.

He is a pretty damned versatile player, though. He isn't a 'tweener' that would have hard time finding his place, I don't think.... He is the kind of guy that could play multiple positions.

From what I've watched of him he seems to be a great hustle/energy player, but doesn't seem to have offensive skills and his jumper looks outright broken.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:18 AM   #66
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuC
From what I've watched of him he seems to be a great hustle/energy player, but doesn't seem to have offensive skills and his jumper looks outright broken.
I honestly don't even really worry about a guy's mechanics on his jumper when I'm looking at a college or high school prospect, especially for a hard worker and gifted athlete like MKG. He will get it worked out on the next level. I virtually guarantee it.

LeBron James had maybe the worst shooting mechanics I had ever seen for a top-rated wing coming into the league. If you have the natural ability and put in the work, it doesn't take incredibly long to fix.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:19 AM   #67
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter
Do you know what his actual height is?


Oriakhi was 6"9 LeBron's camp, and Drummond is clearly taller than him.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:26 AM   #68
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Cavs can still end up with a top 3 pick if not win the lottery this draft.

I wonder who pulls out this draft. I bet Austin Rivers
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:33 AM   #69
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Cavs can still end up with a top 3 pick if not win the lottery this draft.

I wonder who pulls out this draft. I bet Austin Rivers
Well, it depends what happens between now and the end of the season. I would love to have a top 3 pick, obviously. This team, quite frankly, is too good, imo, to get that high of a pick right now.

The reason isn't because it is an extremely talented team aside from Irving, Varejao and Jamison's scoring outbursts... It is because it is a very deep team which is something that benefits them a ton with the condensed schedule.

Their starting unit is Irving, Parker, Casspi, Jamison and Varejao. Their second unit is Sessions, Gibson, Gee, Thompson and Samuels/Erden. I mean, the second unit is almost as good as the first and clearly better in some spots (Gee>Casspi, Thompson>Jamison at everything but scoring and Sessions is a very good backup 1).

They've been able to wear teams out so far this year and I don't see that diminishing, but getting more pronounced as the season gets more and more grueling.

Now, if they trade Jamison and/or Gibson, Varejao, Parker, etc., things could quickly change.

As it stands right now and with Kyrie's game-by-game improvement, I don't see us having a bottom 3 record. I hope we do, though.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:39 AM   #70
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

I don't think Cleveland will have a bottom 3 record but given its a lottery the same way you wound up with the #1 pick last draft could end up happening again. Not that Cleveland needs that kind of luck in a draft this deep assuming guys don't pull out.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:42 AM   #71
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
He is a freshman putting up 14/8 on 50% shooting on a team that doesn't exactly lend itself to one guy dominating games on his own. He is undoubtedly a bit raw offensively when it comes to his jumper, especially from beyond 15 feet. However, he is a workhorse on the offensive glass, extremely athletic, one of the longest legitimate perimeter players to come through in a while (7-foot wingspan) and a tenacious defender.

He has the ability to bring the ball up the floor or play off the ball and attack the boards. He also has a high basketball IQ from everything I've seen/read.

He was pretty much the consensus No. 3 player in this loaded class, behind only Davis and Drummond (ESPN, Rivals, Scout). The guy is a renowned workaholic and very high character.

He is the kind of guy that doesn't need to have the ball in his hands constantly to have a big impact offensively and there isn't a doubt in my mind that he will eventually become a good shooter with the way he works on his game and having a professional shooting coach teaching him the correct form and mechanics. Defense is really probably his defining trait at this stage in the game.

With Kyrie doing most of the ball-handling and playmaking duties, he seems to me to be an ideal running partner.

I could see him being a player in the mold of a Scottie Pippen if everything were to work out perfectly and he maximized his potential. Yeah, I like him a lot.

The fact they were HS teammates that seems a logical conclusion since they already played a couple years with each other..
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:53 AM   #72
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Cleveland should trade Jamison for anything. Trade him for a 3rd pick, whatever. I'm sure that, by the tradeline, some contending team is gonna want a scoring tweener off the bench.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:34 AM   #73
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Forthe Cavs, they need the following, in order:

1a. Perry Jones III
1b. Michael Kidd Gilchrist
3. Andre Drummond
4. Jeremy Lamb
5. Harrison Barnes

This is how their top 5 Big Board should look. Perry is the most skilled guy in the draft, period. He fits perfectly with Kyrie Irving. He is a low post threat who runs the floor and has range comfortably out to 20 feet. Cavs could run P&R all day with those two. And I mean ALL DAY. F*ck the p*ssies who cry about his assertiveness. Skills > "Motor". You all kill me with that sh*t. It happens every draft and that's why the LaMarcus Aldridge and Rudy Gay's of the world get passed over every draft only to make three or four teams look stupid ass hell for not doing their homework.

The draft overall is strong. As normal, a great majority of the masses are overestimating the talents of the most hyped prospects (Davis, Drummond). MKG will be a baller and is the person I want after PJIII.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:41 AM   #74
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

And Qwyjibo, go back in your igloo or whatever kind of housing they have in Canada and let me do this. I was the one touting Jonas Valancuinas when you were on Derrick Williams Johnson (get it?), now 9 months later you hyping Valancuinas, huh?

Whatever. For the Raps, Davis actually fits what you all need. MKG as well. Those two should be at the top of your board.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:43 AM   #75
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Default Re: Consensus #1 pick (according to ISH) finishes w/6 points 9 rebounds against Indiana

Drummond = #1 pick, I know he says he won't declare but hes gonna pull a TT.
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