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Old 12-17-2011, 05:11 AM   #31
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

why go head first? dude had plenty of time to just dip his shoulder..

colt mccoy was getting laid out no matter what, but harrison was INTENT on going head first.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
why go head first? dude had plenty of time to just dip his shoulder..

colt mccoy was getting laid out no matter what, but harrison was INTENT on going head first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsq45OkEUs8

Go check out John Lynch highlights and some of his big hits tell me he wasnt making helmet to helmet hits.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Unbelievable that he got suspended for that. The pussification has to stop.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

can we blame it entirely on Goodell? or how about the non stop media coverage that blows everything out of proportion. the league was definitely "tougher" back in the 70's, 80's, but there wasn't near the amount of media coverage on those games like there are today. Everything that happens in a game is ran through a fine tooth comb. players arguing on the sideline, caught on camera. player laughing on the sideline while getting blown out, caught on camera. player eating a hotdog on the sidelines, caught on camera. its fucking stupid really. EVERYTHING that happens is made out to be some huge deal and is pushed down people's throats.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

he coulda broke his neck - DIRTY PLAY - Suspension deserved - Harrison is an animal, next time he does it he should get 10 games
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsq45OkEUs8

Go check out John Lynch highlights and some of his big hits tell me he wasnt making helmet to helmet hits.
John Lynch played in a different era... Yes, 5-10 years ago was a different era. If Harrison doesn't know that by now, he is dumber than I thought... And, I already had him in 'box of rocks' territory.

A lot of studies have come out on the long term impact of concussions and the tendency toward certain brain diseases for football players who sustained a lot of those impacts. Don't get it twisted, the NFL didn't just start arbitrarily cutting out helmet-to-helmet hits or concussion-causing impacts... They went years after finding out about some of this research having done nothing. Only after these things started going public and people began seeing what playing in the NFL can do to the athletes we so revere did the NFL step up and start to institute changes.

It literally had to be done, for the continuation of the game itself.

All of the people saying, "I wish it was the same now as it was in the '50s and '60s" need to do some reading.


Also, the play you posted is entirely different from the one in question... Even by today's standards. There is a rather large difference between a receiver crossing the middle and his quarterback leaving him out to dry by throwing it late and high and a quarterback escaping the pocket and being hit after he releases the ball.

C'mon man.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 12-17-2011 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

I've seen plenty of hits you can have this discussion about. This is not one of them. This was Harrison having time to make a decision and deciding to try to kill McCoy in this way. If you want this to be legal then you aren't going to have many QB's surviving very long.

And he wasn't a runner, he was behind the line of scrimmage trying to pass. That's not being a runner. WHen you are scrambling for your life you are not a runner.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:01 AM   #38
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
You lose.

r u saying the pro game is slow enough for Harrison to identify the ball was released and avoid full collision with Mccoy in one...maybe one and a half steps.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:04 AM   #39
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
I've seen plenty of hits you can have this discussion about. This is not one of them. This was Harrison having time to make a decision and deciding to try to kill McCoy in this way. If you want this to be legal then you aren't going to have many QB's surviving very long.

And he wasn't a runner, he was behind the line of scrimmage trying to pass. That's not being a runner. WHen you are scrambling for your life you are not a runner.

He left the pocket, tucked the ball and was running towards the LOS before last second passing it. Thats open season right now. Thats the risks you subject yourself to as a QB when you leave the pocket and scramble near the LOS. The moment a defensive player is hesistant is the moment a QB will take advantage of you. Scramble is a form of running.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:14 AM   #40
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
He left the pocket, tucked the ball and was running towards the LOS before last second passing it. Thats open season right now. Thats the risks you subject yourself to as a QB when you leave the pocket and scramble near the LOS. The moment a defensive player is hesistant is the moment a QB will take advantage of you. Scramble is a form of running.

not a perfect comparison...couple years ago kiwi went half speed in a titans giants game didnt finish the play on the qb and vy wins the game.

cant just selectively eliminate aggression this aint a video game.

the spirit of the rule is good ...just i dont like it being used on this hit
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:21 AM   #41
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
John Lynch played in a different era... Yes, 5-10 years ago was a different era. If Harrison doesn't know that by now, he is dumber than I thought... And, I already had him in 'box of rocks' territory.

Harrison is dumb, but the feared hitters in the game some of the celebrated hits you can see helmet to helmet. Lynch laid out a brother in law with a helmet to helmet as his brother in law laid lifeless on the field. Commentators made jokes about Lynch being in trouble with his sister. Yes rules have changed but I doubt Lynch wouldnt have moments where he hit the same people today that he did when he played. That said I doubt the fans would b as outraged as they are with this Harrison hit.

Quote:
A lot of studies have come out on the long term impact of concussions and the tendency toward certain brain diseases for football players who sustained a lot of those impacts. Don't get it twisted, the NFL didn't just start arbitrarily cutting out helmet-to-helmet hits or concussion-causing impacts... They went years after finding out about some of this research having done nothing. Only after these things started going public and people began seeing what playing in the NFL can do to the athletes we so revere did the NFL step up and start to institute changes.

It literally had to be done, for the continuation of the game itself.

I know all that but helmet to helmet hits still happen. Some intentional but some unintentional. I dont think Harrison wanted to intentionally give Colt a concussion but he definately wanted to lay him out.

Quote:
All of the people saying, "I wish it was the same now as it was in the '50s and '60s" need to do some reading.

Most of the feared hitters, biggest and baddest hits you see captured on film would be considered illegal today. Its hard for a fan that embraced, enjoyed, found entertainment in those hits to suddenly have a change of heart and start lookin at these plays in a different light. This is a violent sport. NFL wants to make it safer. I understand that but some plays are hard to avoid. You're acting in the moment off instinct in a game you played your entire life now you have to make quick split second judgements and its hard. Its not easy to do.

Quote:
Also, the play you posted is entirely different from the one in question... Even by today's standards. There is a rather large difference between a receiver crossing the middle and his quarterback leaving him out to dry by throwing it late and high and a quarterback escaping the pocket and being hit after he releases the ball.

C'mon man.

No difference...none. That play would have been a penalty and heavy fine. And that Lions Safety led with his helmet and not only knocked Keyshawn Johnsons off but he also knocked blood right out of hise nose. Keyshawn couldnt stand, he needed to be helped off the field and couldnt tell you what day it was if you asked him. Is it because that is a WR and not a QB? Todays game you cant hit a WR like that. You can cross the middle without fear now. Back then you paid a price especially if your QB hung you out to dry.

Colt released the ball at the last second. He scrambled to the LOS and then got rid of it after he saw Harrison break towards him. Its one of the advantages a QB has on a defensive player scrambling. Who knows if you are being pump faked to react and defend a pass only to see the Colt cut inside and cross the LOS picking up yards. Some of these plays are too quick.

The helmet to helmet got penalized, fined and based on being a repeated offender suspension. I have no issue with that. And he needs to smarten up because he'll be suspended longer next time he hits someone helmet to helmet. I just cant find myself totally outraged and disgusted by the play like others are.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #42
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen
not a perfect comparison...couple years ago kiwi went half speed in a titans giants game didnt finish the play on the qb and vy wins the game.

cant just selectively eliminate aggression this aint a video game.

the spirit of the rule is good ...just i dont like it being used on this hit

I remember that play. 4th and 10 play and Vince broke off a big run. Kiwi held up on his hit and looked back as he thought Vince threw it. Didnt finish the play for fear of being penalized on 4th down for roughing the QB.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Made a gif of the hit and put a 1sec. delay in 2 frames just as Colt releases the ball. If you think Harrison didn't have enough time to adjust, then I don't know. He could have EASILY just gone to the chest area with his shoulder.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
The helmet to helmet got penalized, fined and based on being a repeated offender suspension. I have no issue with that. And he needs to smarten up because he'll be suspended longer next time he hits someone helmet to helmet. I just cant find myself totally outraged and disgusted by the play like others are.

This.

Also I don't get the whole argument if he was out of the pocket or in the pocket. The rules, as I understand them, is that you can not hit a player helmet to helmet. If he was out of the pocket or in the pocket should not make any difference?
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: American Football (National Two Hand Touch League) James Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
No difference...none.
You are just flat-out wrong, here. The Lynch hit probably would have been a fine and it definitely would have been a flag, but there are different rules for quarterbacks, mainly because -- when setting your feet and throwing a football, you are in no position to take a collision like that.

The reason that this particular play drew a suspension was because it was a hit on the quarterback and the rules ARE different for quarterbacks. A ball carrier (ie RB, WR, TE) can get hit helmet-to-helmet if it is deemed that it was not intentional without drawing a flag (let alone a fine/suspension).

This isn't the first guy that Harrison has knocked out for the Browns with helmet-to-helmet contact since the new rules were put in place.

Here is one where he knocked Cribbs out (completely) with helmet-to-helmet contact last year. It didn't even draw a penalty flag...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvj1Dgvz_U

Here is where he knocked out MoMass a few plays later in that same game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWZ5l0nzXo

...again, not even a flag.

For you to say that Lynch's hit is "the same thing" as this hit on McCoy... It isn't... Because this one happened to a QB after he had released the ball... TOTALLY different.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 12-18-2011 at 02:10 PM.
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