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Old 12-30-2011, 05:25 PM   #31
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
There is a reason why Thornton is not in the NBA.

Personally I dont want the Knicks going against the grain.

Like they did with Jared Jeffries? We have @ least 5 guys that would not be in the league if it weren't for us lol
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
He avg 16 ppg in 08 09. Are you saying stuff just to disagree with me or do you really watch him play? He avg 11 ppg over his career in less than 30 minutes a game. I hate when ppl play the "he's not in the league so he sucks" card. Obviously that's not true because he's better than everyone on our bench. If you don't think we need him cool but c'mon man. Actin like he's a bum when our starting PG just dropped 5 and 5 in 33 minutes of play gets you a "C'mon son".

Um did I not say why he isnt in the league? Yah pretty much. I cant remember the year he did well oh wow so what. I knew he had one good year.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Like they did with Jared Jeffries? We have @ least 5 guys that would not be in the league if it weren't for us lol
Since Al is around 27 years old, who do we have on the team around that age that wouldn't be in the NBA, if it wasn't for us?

Keep in mind that there is only two players on our roster that WE drafted.

The fact that Al Thornton is not in the NBA, is just an indication of Al Thornton, no need to get bent on it.

BTW, are you really aware of the Clippers record when he was averaging 16ppg? 19-63.

Want no parts of that.

This really isn't about Jeffries though, as he doesn't hurt the team in the 10 minutes he plays.

Two defensive stops, whether taking charges or getting steals.

I'd take that every single day for the 8-9th man off my bench that plays 10-15 minutes a game.

It's called a specialty player, and all teams have one.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Since Al is around 27 years old, who do we have on the team around that age that wouldn't be in the NBA, if it wasn't for us?

Keep in mind that there is only two players on our roster that WE drafted.

The fact that Al Thornton is not in the NBA, is just an indication of Al Thornton, no need to get bent on it.

BTW, are you really aware of the Clippers record when he was averaging 16ppg? 19-63.

Want no parts of that.

This really isn't about Jeffries though, as he doesn't hurt the team in the 10 minutes he plays.

Two defensive stops, whether taking charges or getting steals.

I'd take that every single day for the 8-9th man off my bench that plays 10-15 minutes a game.

It's called a specialty player, and all teams have one.

Doesn't matter what the record was. We have guys on our team that couldn't average 10 ppg if their life depended on it.

Jared Jeffries is NOT the 8th or 9th man off the bench.In fact, he started games for us last year....and you were fine with him then too. If you don't think having bums on your team don't hurts your team then we have a totally different idea of what winning basketball is. That, and you clearly didn't watch our Playoff series against the Celtics last year.

Harrelson, Lin, Jeffries, Bibby, Jordan and probably Novak wouldn't be in the league anymore if we didn't acquire them.

If you think that everyone who deserves to be in the NBA is and everyone else just isn't good enough...you're sadly mistaken. That's like saying every good rapper has a record deal and radio play. It's all about opportunity. Look at Sundiata Gaine that plays for the Nets. I grew up playing against him. He was a standout at Georgia but the team underachieved. He lingered in the D-League and got called up.Luckily, his 1st game he hit a game winner against LeBron n the Cavs. Otherwise,he wouldnt have gotten passed his 10 day contract. Crazy part is, there were guys better than him growing up who just didnt get their shot. I've played in tournaments where Joakim Noah rode the bench and only got in the game when it was a blowout.

Bottom line is, GM's are lazy;especially in this shortened offseason. Historically,the Knicks have been one of the biggest culprits. We sign names and not talent. We do the same with our coaching choices. The Knicks never get guys like Tom Thibadeau because theyre all about signing guys with names. If you can't see Mike Bibby us done, you dont deerve to be a GM. If you can't see guys like Jared Jeffries sucks, you dont deserve to be a GM. This isn't just about Al Thornton. It's about getting young,talented guys who have potential to get better. Not wasting money and roster spots on scrubs who are only good for drawing charges. Dont tell me a guy who avg less than 5 ppg and can't hit a free throw or guard anybody, yet gets quality minutes, doesnt hurt your team. It's simply not true. Furthermore, you said EVERY team has one of those guys. We have a whole team FULL of those guys. I repeat, we have FOUR players who can create their own shot. FOUR!!! and two are injured.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:04 AM   #35
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

I will address everything you said.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Doesn't matter what the record was. We have guys on our team that couldn't average 10 ppg if their life depended on it.

Every team has guys that won't average 10ppg.

Dallas last season only had 5 that averaged 10ppg, which is pretty normal for any good ball club.

And we should be there as well, with Stat, Melo, Shumpert, Baron, who can each be good scorers as a whole.

Which is why I wanted to flip TD for Crawford, which was a legit possibility, because this team needs more players who can score.

But...as far a role players go, they fit a role, and scoring isn't the only role on a team.

Our guys do fill roles, we have an awful coach who can't utilize them properly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Jared Jeffries is NOT the 8th or 9th man off the bench.In fact, he started games for us last year....and you were fine with him then too. If you don't think having bums on your team don't hurts your team then we have a totally different idea of what winning basketball is. That, and you clearly didn't watch our Playoff series against the Celtics last year.

Jeffries is a good 8-9 man.

Take a good look at any team third to fourth player that comes off the bench, and please tell me the names of those guys that are better, that plays 15 minutes or less.

I will use the Champions in this example.

Corey Brewer, Brian Cardinal, Ian Mahinmi, Alexis Ajinca, Dominique Jones, Steve Novak

Those were their "15 minutes or less" guys over the course of the year.

Anything in there makes you mouth water to be on our team?


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Harrelson, Lin, Jeffries, Bibby, Jordan and probably Novak wouldn't be in the league anymore if we didn't acquire them.

None of those guys were drafted by us, so no way to truly predict that.

Harrelson is a hustle guy, and a decent shooting touch so I think he may hang around some time.

Lin will find a spot somewhere, as he is young, will come cheap, and for 10 minutes, is a decent player for depth.

Jeffries played on a playoff team prior to Isiah blowing a full MLE on him, and at vets min he's more than serviceable in his 10 minutes a game.

I think Jordan is a bust, but guess what?

7 foot big men with size, always hang around, they always do.

Novak is a very good spot up three ball shooter, which is why solid clubs picked him up just last year alone in the Mavs and Spurs, and he helped both clubs in the time he was there.

Bibby is a backup third stringer now.

But the overall point is you're complaining about guys who are 8th man and beyond on ours and anyone's roster.

These guys are dirt cheap, and they aren't the one's hurting the team.



Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
If you think that everyone who deserves to be in the NBA is and everyone else just isn't good enough...you're sadly mistaken. That's like saying every good rapper has a record deal and radio play. It's all about opportunity. Look at Sundiata Gaine that plays for the Nets. I grew up playing against him. He was a standout at Georgia but the team underachieved. He lingered in the D-League and got called up.Luckily, his 1st game he hit a game winner against LeBron n the Cavs. Otherwise,he wouldnt have gotten passed his 10 day contract. Crazy part is, there were guys better than him growing up who just didnt get their shot. I've played in tournaments where Joakim Noah rode the bench and only got in the game when it was a blowout.

That's a cool story to say the least, but of course there are players out there who could be NBA players.

I have the height (6' 7"), weight (245), not fat (10%), in shape, and can shoot well, have good fundamentals, and a strong mindset.

There are millions of people who fit that bill.

But that wasn't my upbringing, nor my pursuit, just recreation from the park, and playing with my high school team in practice, which I still do til this day.

Agent sell their players to teams, very few teams do thorough recruiting, and scouting, anymore, they rely more on the agents now than ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Bottom line is, GM's are lazy;especially in this shortened offseason. Historically,the Knicks have been one of the biggest culprits. We sign names and not talent. We do the same with our coaching choices. The Knicks never get guys like Tom Thibadeau because theyre all about signing guys with names. If you can't see Mike Bibby us done, you dont deerve to be a GM. If you can't see guys like Jared Jeffries sucks, you dont deserve to be a GM. This isn't just about Al Thornton. It's about getting young,talented guys who have potential to get better. Not wasting money and roster spots on scrubs who are only good for drawing charges. Dont tell me a guy who avg less than 5 ppg and can't hit a free throw or guard anybody, yet gets quality minutes, doesnt hurt your team. It's simply not true. Furthermore, you said EVERY team has one of those guys. We have a whole team FULL of those guys. I repeat, we have FOUR players who can create their own shot. FOUR!!! and two are injured.

Just about every playoff team has these types of guys.

Go look at their roster guy.

Every team is not like the Showtime Lakers back in the day.

And we don't have a team full of them, what we have is a misguided and misused group of guys.

Better coaching, and this squad when 100% full strength, would be a legit contender.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

You're missing my point. It's not tht those guys wont avg 10 ppg. It's that if they played 48 minutes a game, they STILL couldnt avg 10 ppg.

The reason the ATL trade didnt work is because nobody wants Toney Douglas lol Why would you sign and trade for Toney Douglas? Take on a guaranteed deal for nothing? Douglas would be the 3rd or 4th pg.

Mahinmi,Brewer, Ajinca and Domonique Jones are all better than Jeffries. It's not even close. Mahinmi just dropped 19 last night. Jeffries may not score 19 all season I'll give u Cardinal. He shouldnt be in the league. I was one of the ppl pissed that we didnt use Corey Brewer when we had him. And I said during the offseason I wanted Ajinca. Dominique Jones was a big time scorer in college who just doesnt get opportunities because of the team he's on.

Jared Jeffries and good shouldn't be in the same sentence unless it's "Jared Jeffries is good and terrible" Im sorry, if all you can offer is two charges a game, you suck. He isn't a good defender.He's an overrated rebounder. He is non-existant on offense and he can't make a free throw. If you can't see that he's a liability, Im done trying to convince you.

1st of all, the Hornets drafted Harrelson FOR us.They had no intention on keeping him.2nd if all Harrelson does NOT have a good shooting touch. In fact, I dont know when he started shooting 3's. He NEVER did that in college. Furthermore, his 1st shot in the Laker game was a wide open airball. It didnt even reach the charge semi-circle

I have no complaints about Jordan. I'm willing to wait and see if he pans out. I NEVER gripe about players with potential.I also have no problems with Novak. He's one dimensional, but that dimension is really good. Lin looks like a scrub but time will tell. I can tolerate Walker and Balkman.

What I can't tolerate is getting guys like Harrelson, Jeffries and Bibby.They not only stink but have no potential on getting better.Guys in their 30's dont improve suddenly. As for Harrelson, he's shown that he's never going to be anything more than a fat rugged undersized white guy (no offense to white ppl).He was that in college and he's that in the pros. Because he hada decent tournament, ppl started acting like he was Tyler Hansbrough and he's not. Then once again, we drafted a name,totally disregarding his struggles during the regular season. Same thing we did with Jerome James

I'm a rough critic. I'll admit it. But I have a big problem with the fact that I have a 6'7" cousin and a 5'11" friend who would wipe the floor with our bench players and they arent THAT good. My cousin plays in the Phillipines and he'd KILL Jared Jeffries. Not even bragging. We have a professional basketball team with guys that don't even belong in the NBA. That's a problem!
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #37
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Franchize, you're better than this guy.

I respect the hell out of you for speaking your mind, respectfully.

But you are way off base with this discussion.

We are actually discussing "8- inactive" guys.

There really is no problem with these guys we have as long as they are where they are.

They are all cheap, the coaching staff is only playing them due to injury and a short, cramped season.

Come playoff time, barring injuries half of those guys won't see the court, dues to a short 7-8 man rotation.

It's not nearly as big as you're making it.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #38
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Franchize how many kids do you want this team to have?

Some teams have the luxury to pull guys off the street and give them a shot and find diamonds in the rough. Usually those teams are non-playoff teams lottery teams. Perfect example GSW they pull dudes out of the arse like crazy. This team is pretty young on the bench and you have a handful of guys with some NBA experience.

I do not like what the GM's have done as far as the bench the past 2 years. Just a fact of life many people dont want to play for the Knicks.

This year was a year that I wanted the Knicks to sign Sebastian but at no time before did I think he fit in.

You think Al Thornton is young and talented. He had a good year with LA a while ago. Funny enough he reminds me of Travis Outlaw. This is my impression of Al He cant create his own shot or score efficiently and he has limited offensive ability. Cant play defense. Pretty low basketball IQ. I dont think the Knicks need that.

You may have another impression all together.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Franchize how many kids do you want this team to have?

Some teams have the luxury to pull guys off the street and give them a shot and find diamonds in the rough. Usually those teams are non-playoff teams lottery teams. Perfect example GSW they pull dudes out of the arse like crazy. This team is pretty young on the bench and you have a handful of guys with some NBA experience.

I do not like what the GM's have done as far as the bench the past 2 years. Just a fact of life many people dont want to play for the Knicks.

This year was a year that I wanted the Knicks to sign Sebastian but at no time before did I think he fit in.

You think Al Thornton is young and talented. He had a good year with LA a while ago. Funny enough he reminds me of Travis Outlaw. This is my impression of Al He cant create his own shot or score efficiently and he has limited offensive ability. Cant play defense. Pretty low basketball IQ. I dont think the Knicks need that.

You may have another impression all together.



You clearly dont watch al thornton play.when was he ever called a bad defensive player? Anyway,i dont want to make this about al thornton.but for the record,travis outlaw is better than most of our bench guys too.he only got a bad rap becuz of that ridiculous contract the nets gave him.for if he was a knick,id be happy.gettin veterans is just a false way to pretend ur contending temporarily.its a stop gap. I want players our team can grow with like the Thunder did.Theres a youth movement in the NBA. We need to get with the times.A few veteran locker room guys is fine. Key word being few. Ppl bring up Dallas but theyve been playing together and they still can play at a hig level. Bibby and Jeffries have been bad for a while. We need guys who can play the game.young or old!

Last edited by franchize : 12-31-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I want players our team can grow with like the Thunder did.Theres a youth movement in the NBA. We need to get with the times.

This team, even when bad hasn't had the luxury that the Thunder had.

This team has been badly managed, but never came close to winning top three spots in the lotto, except when isiah blew it with Curry.

There is/was no way this team could have been in the shoes of the Thunder without luck, and GM's gifting players.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:34 AM   #41
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

When your best ball handler is your SF and he's a way better passer than your point guard, it's usually a problem. Instead of going out and getting a PG, we masked the problem with this point/forward bullshit. This reminds me of when Anthony Mason was running point here.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:43 AM   #42
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
When your best ball handler is your SF and he's a way better passer than your point guard, it's usually a problem. Instead of going out and getting a PG, we masked the problem with this point/forward bullshit. This reminds me of when Anthony Mason was running point here.

33% from the field
28% from 3 point
4 apg
31 minutes of play. This is a problem!
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:54 AM   #43
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
33% from the field
28% from 3 point
4 apg
31 minutes of play. This is a problem!
knicks mvp
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

He stinks.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:07 AM   #45
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Default Re: Toney Douglas

when douglas is your 2nd option, you know something is wrong
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