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Old 12-31-2011, 11:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Dude, you're a great poster and an awesome mod...but open your eyes. Yes,Mike D'Antoni sucks. That said, this roster is not good. We are not a good coach away from being a contender. We have no pg, I'm on the fence about our sg and our bench is one of the worst in the league. On top of that,our "prized" acquisition thus far has looked rather mediocre.We need help quick.
No...put things into perspective.

The team looks bad because of it's leadership from the bench, and injuries too, really just that simple.

We have two primary scorers in Melo and Amar'e, which no other team not name Miami, has better.

Couple that with Chandler who is a good center, although we all agreed was paid at a high premium.

That's a damn good front line.

Now build around that......

!) a good two-way coach....none available now, but Adelman, Frank was.

2) Give me a defensive minded two guard.....maybe Shumpert can be that.

3) Baron Davis when healthy can be that starting pg for this squad.

Now that takes care of the starting 5, and the coaching.

Let's work with the bench.

6th man......Douglas should have been traded to the Hawks for that sign and trade for Crawford, team blunder, as he solves both backup guard roles.

7th man.....Fields backs up Melo in a more comfortable role with guys on his talent level. he is clearly shook with the star power in a starting role.

8th man....why don't we have Shawne Williams? Willing defender, who can hit the long shots from the corner......now we have Novak, who can provide the same offense, minus the defense....stretch 4.

9th man....should be a backup center, Jordan is not that guy, but Pryz could have been and I think he's still available.

10th man.....Jeffries, 10 minutes, two defensive stops, good team mate, a few boards, sit.

Ready reserves.....Harrelson for hustle and big man rest.

Bibby, Lin in the case of injury, but rather had AC.

That would be my roster, but none of this works without better leadership from the bench.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Problem is
Baron isn't healthy and who knows when he will be.
While I like Shumpert alot, he is a rookie and he's hurt.
Novak isn't Shawne Williams on offense or defense. He hits 3's...thats it. Shawne did more for us than just spot up.
Douglas is a backup tp a backup pg. You cant even honestly say at this point he's better than Duhon anymore.
Jerome Jordan is a project. I dont mind that but we need a capable backup for the time being and Jared Jeffries is NOT that. This particularly hurts this team because Chandler has had foul trouble woes throughout his career.

Most of your post is something you wish would happen and not something that exists. End of the day, we had a bad bench last year but it's still better than this years.
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Time to fix things

If the Knicks cut bait on Lin and Bibby who will the Knicks use to play PG?

If you want to acquire a PG from another team what assets do we have to make this trade happen?
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Problem is
Baron isn't healthy and who knows when he will be.
While I like Shumpert alot, he is a rookie and he's hurt.
Novak isn't Shawne Williams on offense or defense. He hits 3's...thats it. Shawne did more for us than just spot up.
Douglas is a backup tp a backup pg. You cant even honestly say at this point he's better than Duhon anymore.
Jerome Jordan is a project. I dont mind that but we need a capable backup for the time being and Jared Jeffries is NOT that. This particularly hurts this team because Chandler has had foul trouble woes throughout his career.

Most of your post is something you wish would happen and not something that exists. End of the day, we had a bad bench last year but it's still better than this years.
On offense he didn't.
He was just shooting threes,most often from the corner.
Even when he decided to drive he could rarely finish.
Towards the end of the season he couldn't even hit threes at a high percentage.
He was shooting only 33.6% for three after the all star break.That isn't bad but isn't anything special also.
Shawne was a superior defensive player though.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
On offense he didn't.
He was just shooting threes,most often from the corner.
Even when he decided to drive he could rarely finish.
Towards the end of the season he couldn't even hit threes at a high percentage.
He was shooting only 33.6% for three after the all star break.That isn't bad but isn't anything special also.
Shawne was a superior defensive player though.
33% is shit from behind the arc. I'd willingly tell my players to leave a shooter at that percentage open so they can double Melo and amare
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: Time to fix things

You guys convinced yet? We HAVE to get better players. Period. As bad as I want D'Antoni out of here, this isn't even fair to him. This roster is absolutely atrocious. We are Melo, Stat, Chandler and a bunch of guys from accounting. Knickscity asked me to "put things into perspective". I will. In fact, I'll play devil's advocate and take a page out of Knickcity's Book of Optimism and Positive Thinking.

Here's a look at our bench and why they were acquired. This is not based on how I see them but based on people who supported acquiring these guys.

Josh Harrelson- brought in for his hustle and toughness
Jared Jeffries- brought in for his hustle and to draw charges and play D
Steve Novak- brought in to shoot 3's
Mike Bibby- brought in for leadership and 3 point shooting
Renaldo Balkman-Hustler and rebounder
Bill Walker-slasher,defender,hustler
Jeremy Lin-......
Jerome Jordan- Developing big man. Lengthy with athleticism.
Iman Shumpert- promising youg rookie with playmaking potential

So essentially, we have ONE guy who has the skills to create his own offense. Therefore,you have 8 players that can only score when put in perfect position to do so. When looking at it from that point of view, I not only see why we shoot so many 3's and look stagnant on offense, but I understand why Amare and Melo force it so much.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Who needs better players if the coach wants more threes?

This game wasn't lost because of talent.

Melo can can beat the Raptors all by himself.

But not if the offense is "shoot the three".

D'antoni screamed at Bill Walker because he passed a damn three.

Inexcusable.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Saying "we need Baron" is pathetic. If all our hopes are on him and his back, then we are truly finished. He was supposed to be an addition, not the linchpin.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity

Melo can can beat the Raptors all by himself.


Obviously, he cant.

Quote:
Who needs better players if the coach wants more threes?

This game wasn't lost because of talent.


DUDE...Hate to be the bearer of bad news...WE SUCK!!! You can preach all the "we shoot too many 3's" stuff you want...guys just can't play. I agree. We shoot way too many 3's. But to be honest,we really have no choice. We're like the mid-major teams in the NCAA tourny. The ones that win are the ones who get hot from 3. When they dont, they get blown out because of the obvious talent disparity. You're asking for guys not to take 3's when the fact remains that it's the only thing they can do.

This is what happens when you bring in all these guys "for their hustle" or to draw charges or "because they can guard 5 positions" . You're offense looks like shit. That's why when ppl say "bringing in a a veteran for the vet min can't hurt" I say...YES IT CAN. Mike Bibby in his prime was never a big time playmaker. He hit big time shots. Now,his J isn't as automatic n he's become a liability. Does Mike D'Antoni need to go? Absolutely. Are we losing because of him? Partially. Is he our main problem? Not any more! Last year he was. This year, we still have him and our roster has gotten WORSE! Just like the Jets. Problem is, we have even less players to cover his foolishness up.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Obviously, he cant.



DUDE...Hate to be the bearer of bad news...WE SUCK!!! You can preach all the "we shoot too many 3's" stuff you want...guys just can't play. I agree. We shoot way too many 3's. But to be honest,we really have no choice. We're like the mid-major teams in the NCAA tourny. The ones that win are the ones who get hot from 3. When they dont, they get blown out because of the obvious talent disparity. You're asking for guys not to take 3's when the fact remains that it's the only thing they can do.

This is what happens when you bring in all these guys "for their hustle" or to draw charges or "because they can guard 5 positions" . You're offense looks like shit. That's why when ppl say "bringing in a a veteran for the vet min can't hurt" I say...YES IT CAN. Mike Bibby in his prime was never a big time playmaker. He hit big time shots. Now,his J isn't as automatic n he's become a liability. Does Mike D'Antoni need to go? Absolutely. Are we losing because of him? Partially. Is he our main problem? Not any more! Last year he was. This year, we still have him and our roster has gotten WORSE! Just like the Jets. Problem is, we have even less players to cover his foolishness up.


Knicks put more talent on the floor than the Raptors.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Who needs better players if the coach wants more threes?

This game wasn't lost because of talent.

Melo can can beat the Raptors all by himself.

But not if the offense is "shoot the three".

D'antoni screamed at Bill Walker because he passed a damn three.

Inexcusable.

So thats why Bill Walker always chucks 3's even when hes not open.



This offense isn't going to get us anywhere.

As I said in my OP we need a more athletic bench with 1-2 guys who will take shots, and a coach who will get us to push the damn ball and run other teams off the court.

We shouldn't be scoring under 100 each game playing at the pace of our opponent. Much rather lose a shootout of 120-115 playing at our pace, than scoring in the 80's playing the game our opponents want.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:24 AM   #27
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Default Re: Time to fix things

our weakness is lack of passing and ball movement. tony douglas can only do so much, and he cannot drive the ball if his life depended on it. Not once today did we see anyone drive in and kick out for a open 3(not that i remember). it was either drive in and score or drive it in and turnover. then we have walker/bibby/jorts taking really bad 3's sometimes with couple guys in their face launching it like its practice.
then we have time where no one wants to shoot because they are not confident to make the shot so they give it to melo
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Knicks put more talent on the floor than the Raptors.
Ok lets compare shall we

Douglas vs JCalderon- About even but Douglas outscored him. Douglas took 19 shots though to Calderon's 8. Mind you, Bayless is also better than Toney.

Derozan vs Fields- Obviously DeMar is better, even though Landry played well IMO.

Anthony vs Butler- We all no this answer

Harrelson vs Amir Johnson- Amir Johnson is definitely better.

Bargnani vs Chandler- About even. Bargnani is way better offensively and Chandler's way better defensively

Carter vs Bibby- you guys said yourself you'd rather Carter back over Bibby

Barbosa vs Walker-I'd take Barbosa but not by much.

Novak vs Johnson- James Johnson is clearly better than Steve Novak.

Maglaoire vs Jordan- who knows...who cares lol

And this is a BAD Raptors team. What's going to happen when we play teams with talent?
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: Time to fix things

All of you are right.

Your star players have no leadership or brains.
Roster isnt talented.
The coach cant run his system because of the inadequate players.
Coach doesnt promote ball movement.
Defense and rebounding arent keys.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Time to fix things

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Ok lets compare shall we

Douglas vs JCalderon- About even but Douglas outscored him. Douglas took 19 shots though to Calderon's 8. Mind you, Bayless is also better than Toney.

Derozan vs Fields- Obviously DeMar is better, even though Landry played well IMO.

Anthony vs Butler- We all no this answer

Harrelson vs Amir Johnson- Amir Johnson is definitely better.

Bargnani vs Chandler- About even. Bargnani is way better offensively and Chandler's way better defensively

Carter vs Bibby- you guys said yourself you'd rather Carter back over Bibby

Barbosa vs Walker-I'd take Barbosa but not by much.

Novak vs Johnson- James Johnson is clearly better than Steve Novak.

Maglaoire vs Jordan- who knows...who cares lol

And this is a BAD Raptors team. What's going to happen when we play teams with talent?
calderon by a mile, douglas is no where near him considering what the position requires the player to do, douglas can be a sg and still put up those numbers, but his assisting is poor
calderon outplayed douglas and is the reason they won
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