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Old 01-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by franchize

What do you mean "it is what it is." How can you cry about money to spend then? We still had money when the roster was Melo,Amare and "a gutted roster." We could have amnestied Billups if need be and used the cap space on multiple solid players, not just one and a bunch of scrubs.Two players at the max doesn't kill your team financially. 3 players getting top dollar does, especially when the 3rd isn't a top player.




It was the right move. Because the strategy is to force pgs to take a paycut on this team. We have the best pg system. We have the best frontcourt and 2 scorers on this team. Pgs will be drooling for this team and it worked coz we got davis for cheap. We should not overpay for pgs and in fact force them to take a paycut coz a pgs dream is to play for dantoni.

If we didnt get chandler, we would be like miami who would only get a quality center through draft and it will take time. I dont know if they can get a center through free agency and they really didnt get one this season. Pgs are more likely to take a paycut esp for this team.

And I rather have a center than a pg coz the best frontcourt wins in this league while a 5 apg rondo is enough to win you rings. IMO centers have almost the same impact as pgs thats why boston is done after they traded perkins despite having the league leader in apg in rondo.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

I don't regret the Melo trade, maybe they did all they could. I don't regret having Carmelo here at all. I think we need to do more changes to the roster and from there on we can continue to strive. Get rid of our entire supporting cast.

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Old 01-18-2012, 11:10 PM   #33
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Draz
I don't regret the Melo trade, maybe they did all they could. I don't regret having Carmelo here at all. I think we need to do more changes to the roster and from there on we can continue to strive. Get rid of our entire supporting cast.

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I'm fully on board with a Stat trade now.

I'm just waiting for baron Davis to hopefully bring this dude back to life so his trade value can go up to the point we can get a little bit of depth.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

If we're talking drastic moves, it'd be better to trade Melo. He's individually talented, but doesn't mesh well with the concept of team ball. Moving him for a good point guard and some more pieces would make the overall team better. Something like Rondo and Allen would be awesome. Or younger. Maybe D-Will and one of the shooters they've got over there. Morrow? Hell, trade him to the Nuggets for Lawson, Koufos, and Gallo.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Scoooter
If we're talking drastic moves, it'd be better to trade Melo. He's individually talented, but doesn't mesh well with the concept of team ball. Moving him for a good point guard and some more pieces would make the overall team better. Something like Rondo and Allen would be awesome. Or younger. Maybe D-Will and one of the shooters they've got over there. Morrow? Hell, trade him to the Nuggets for Lawson, Koufos, and Gallo.
Trading your best player makes no sense.

Even when Melo is shooting well he does other things on the court.

The only chemistry issues are with him and Amar'e, but Amare' has chemistry with no one.

Amar'e doesn't fit with Chandler or Melo, yet Melo can run a p n r and lob to Chandler all day, and he's our assist leader so far.

Tonite was the first game Amar'e had a blocked shot the entire month.

The best move is to wait until he can build up stock, and move stat for depth.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

I disagree. Melo could be yield a serious return (as it it did for the Nuggets). Getting a great point guard and pairing him up with Amar'e can produce something greater than the sum of it's parts. We saw that in PHX, and something like it last year. Melo's an ISO player, which is why, while he always get his numbers, the team isn't winning anything. When Amar'e had great games last season (with a decent point guard, not as good as the kind you could possibly get in a Melo trade), the team won games. Melo's been our best player this season, but we look like shit.

Of course, it depends on the coach. If they hire Phil Jackson or something, who's Triangle doesn't need a point guard to do much, then it's a different ball game. But we don't really have any solid pivots, so I don't know how great that would work either. Tyson Chandler can't do it.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Scoooter
I disagree. Melo could be yield a serious return (as it it did for the Nuggets). Getting a great point guard and pairing him up with Amar'e can produce something greater than the sum of it's parts. We saw that in PHX, and something like it last year. Melo's an ISO player, which is why, while he always get his numbers, the team isn't winning anything. When Amar'e had great games last season (with a decent point guard, not as good as the kind you could possibly get in a Melo trade), the team won games. Melo's been our best player this season, but we look like shit.

Of course, it depends on the coach. If they hire Phil Jackson or something, who's Triangle doesn't need a point guard to do much, then it's a different ball game. But we don't really have any solid pivots, so I don't know how great that would work either. Tyson Chandler can't do it.
Your missing the point.

To get a productive Amar'e, you need a solid pg, and a mobile center.

Chandler plays down low and never moves, but on the other end he is a legit anchor.

Melo, even when not scoring has been doing other things positive.

Amar'e has done nothing and there are two reasons why........

No pg, can't create on his own, doesn't defend, turnover prone, and Chandler takes up his space.

The team does not fit, but is talented enough to not take these types of loses, but the players needs to adjust, and everyone has to a degree except the one who has made absolutely no adjustment......Amar'e.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:49 PM   #38
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Your missing the point.
No I'm not. You're just being condescending now. I don't deserve that. I work hard for this body.

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To get a productive Amar'e, you need a solid pg, and a mobile center.
You could get those things in a Melo trade. You need a solid PG anyway. And I think, the better the PG, the greater the chance Chandler could work out, even though he's useless offensively.
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Chandler plays down low and never moves, but on the other end he is a legit anchor.
Agreed, but he is laughably overpaid.
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Melo, even when not scoring has been doing other things positive.
A few token assists here and there isn't winning us any games. Let's not pretend he's Larry Bird here.
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Amar'e has done nothing and there are two reasons why........

No pg, can't create on his own, doesn't defend, turnover prone, and Chandler takes up his space.

The team does not fit, but is talented enough to not take these types of loses, but the players needs to adjust, and everyone has to a degree except the one who has made absolutely no adjustment......Amar'e.
Eh, the team just doesn't fit well together. There's no outside shooting, no ball movement, and I think ego's are going to start butting heads soon. I'm amenable to blowing it up, but then I was never on board with this course of action in the first place. I just think you start with the guy who has never really demonstrated the ability to make a team better.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

First of all. You don't give away SOLID role players for a star franchise player just to get rid of him shortly after. Stupidest shit ever. We need players to build around. Amare is more injury prone, he has the coldest streaks. I'm not saying trade Amare. That's way to over the top drastic. I'm saying build around them, it's obviously not working out with these players as role players, get new ones fresh feat and players that want to win something not come because they got the best deal in example Bibby.

If we look at Miami, each and every single one of those players on there want that ring. They went there for it. Players didn't come here for the ring, they came here for the salary. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. I see people complaining about Amare. I don't know wtf is wrong with him, he just makes the stupidest choices in the world. He runs to the baseline and turns the ball over, I seen it what almost 3 times? Probably twice a game. He likes getting technical's. I enjoy seeing him play at his best, but when he's playing at his worst, it's hard.

We need players that can score individually. Before we had Gallo, who can score also not from deep alone but was adapting to driving the ball and rebounding. We had Chandler who did a good job putting up points sometime even 20+ point games. We had Felton who would have 10 points and rack up on assists, make smart plays, was a AVERAGE player and did the job. What are we doing wrong now? Well the team probably feels like only 1-2 people can score individually, what about the rest of the team?

We need players like KMART, JR Smith, players that can go off and do their role even go out of their way.

Do anything to get players that CAN score, because in the end you just have more scorers on the floor and can stretch, could rotate, could take stress off players. We also had Sean Williams I forgot to mention a big part of our leads and coming back. Guy was hitting his corner 3's and that's what were missing, not resigning him may have been a huge problem. He was solid defending to we seen this on him defending LeBron.

Last edited by Draz : 01-18-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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I just think you start with the guy who has never really demonstrated the ability to make a team better.
Correct, if anyone moves it would be Amar'e.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:56 PM   #41
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

Draz no disrespect, but Amar'e couldn't even go to the bench to get rest with the old team, without a lead getting blown, and for some reason they gave up 105 points per game.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

Tyson Chandler is doing a good job, regardless of how much he isn't scoring. He's challenging shots, changing shots, making good efforts on rebounding both offensively and defensively. Second chance opportunities I see this in his improvement. He has to work more on this and that, but he's solid I like his game he complements whoever we have in example Carmelo Anthony.

I really want to stand AGAINST breaking up the 3 players. Stay far away as possible let that be the last resort after all we don't have Davis. After Davis is somewhat healthy and performs, we can decide after that. In the meanwhile we need to make changes with who we have now, and fast while they all have value left in them.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:03 AM   #43
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Draz
First of all. You don't give away SOLID role players for a star franchise player just to get rid of him shortly after. Stupidest shit ever.
Sometimes life calls for the bold move.

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We need players to build around. Amare is more injury prone, he has the coldest streaks.
Melo's been injured all season.

Quote:
I'm not saying trade Amare.
Coward.

Quote:
That's way to over the top drastic. I'm saying build around them, it's obviously not working out with these players as role players, get new ones fresh feat and players that want to win something not come because they got the best deal in example Bibby.
You could be offering a voice of reason, but I think the nuclear option is more entertaining.

Quote:
If we look at Miami, each and every single one of those players on there want that ring. They went there for it. Players didn't come here for the ring, they came here for the salary. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.
You can't force them to be winners. This problem isn't fixable.

Quote:
We need players that can score individually. Before we had Gallo, who can score also not from deep alone but was adapting to driving the ball and rebounding. We had Chandler who did a good job putting up points sometime even 20+ point games. We had Felton who would have 10 points and rack up on assists, make smart plays, was a AVERAGE player and did the job. What are we doing wrong now? Well the team probably feels like only 1-2 people can score individually, what about the rest of the team?
We had a better team before. That's a no brainer.

Quote:
We need players like KMART, JR Smith, players that can go off and do their role even go out of their way.
K-Marts not a scorer though, one who's been sitting around for months not playing. And JR wouldn't help our IQ problems.

And it's all just too Nuggetty.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:05 AM   #44
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Draz
Tyson Chandler is doing a good job, regardless of how much he isn't scoring. He's challenging shots, changing shots, making good efforts on rebounding both offensively and defensively. Second chance opportunities I see this in his improvement. He has to work more on this and that, but he's solid I like his game he complements whoever we have in example Carmelo Anthony.

I really want to stand AGAINST breaking up the 3 players. Stay far away as possible let that be the last resort after all we don't have Davis. After Davis is somewhat healthy and performs, we can decide after that. In the meanwhile we need to make changes with who we have now, and fast while they all have value left in them.
Tyson Chandler is a good 7-8 million dollar a year, one-end-of-the-court player. That contract is a real hamstringer. For that money, he should be prime Ben Wallace. Half of Dwight Howard. He should be Dikembe Mutumbo, with better enunciation.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:07 AM   #45
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Default Re: Evaluating the Knicks

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Correct, if anyone moves it would be Amar'e.
Carmelo Anthony. Master of the one-and-done playoff run.
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