Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2012, 04:59 PM   #1
MrRogers
I airball my layups
 
MrRogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Madison Square Garden
Posts: 99
Default Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Played on that 92-93 Suns team, he was 6'7 about 200 lbs, and very talented. if he left the drugs alone, he'd have a very wealthy career, and Phoenix may have a banner up.
MrRogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 05:17 PM   #2
Teanett
Great Basketball Mind
 
Teanett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 2nd floor, east of noho
Posts: 4,729
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Played on that 92-93 Suns team, he was 6'7 about 200 lbs, and very talented. if he left the drugs alone, he'd have a very wealthy career, and Phoenix may have a banner up.
phoenix wouldnt have a banner, because charles got hurt and fat.
but he would've had a good career, maybe comparable to richard jefferson.
Teanett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 06:23 PM   #3
Owl
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,503
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Given how many chances he got I suspect it was never going to happen for Dumas, he'd already been suspended once and given a chance on the perfect team for him, he couldn't help himself (literally).
Nice summary of his his career and especially Phoenix here http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011...d-dumas-92-93/

Two related tangents
1) Dumas wasn't the biggest waste of talent on that team, that would be Oliver Miller (pun semi-intended). Seriously though the gigantic O was a very good shot blocker and passer; decent stealer and boarder; and shot accurately if rarely. Shame he was a lazy chemistry cancer who ate his way out of the league.
2) You mentioned that they might have won a title with Dumas, but the Suns were missing Ceballos in the 93 finals, and the Bulls in '93 played the worst of the Bulls title teams, possibly due to Dream Team fatigue. As it was the teams had 640 points each over the series, Ceballos could have tipped the balance.
Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:16 PM   #4
Geriatric
Old Bum
 
Geriatric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 414
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl
Given how many chances he got I suspect it was never going to happen for Dumas, he'd already been suspended once and given a chance on the perfect team for him, he couldn't help himself (literally).
Nice summary of his his career and especially Phoenix here http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011...d-dumas-92-93/

Two related tangents
1) Dumas wasn't the biggest waste of talent on that team, that would be Oliver Miller (pun semi-intended). Seriously though the gigantic O was a very good shot blocker and passer; decent stealer and boarder; and shot accurately if rarely. Shame he was a lazy chemistry cancer who ate his way out of the league.
2) You mentioned that they might have won a title with Dumas, but the Suns were missing Ceballos in the 93 finals, and the Bulls in '93 played the worst of the Bulls title teams, possibly due to Dream Team fatigue. As it was the teams had 640 points each over the series, Ceballos could have tipped the balance.

Oliver could have been so much better than he ended up. I remember he had great hands. Was one of the most coordinated fatasses I've ever seen in my life.
Geriatric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:29 PM   #5
swi7ch
Banned
 
swi7ch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,454
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Oliver Miller would be a HoF if only he stopped eating. Guy would probably average a triple double.
swi7ch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:31 PM   #6
RRR3
For threeeeee!!!
 
RRR3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 15,978
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by swi7ch
Oliver Miller would be a HoF if only he stopped eating. Guy would probably average a triple double.
A triple double with cheese, maybe.
RRR3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:35 PM   #7
PistolPete
The Pistol
 
PistolPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hall of Fame
Posts: 4,219
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Him and Ceballos would have been BIG
PistolPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:42 PM   #8
NugzHeat3
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,277
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl
Given how many chances he got I suspect it was never going to happen for Dumas, he'd already been suspended once and given a chance on the perfect team for him, he couldn't help himself (literally).
Nice summary of his his career and especially Phoenix here http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011...d-dumas-92-93/

Two related tangents
1) Dumas wasn't the biggest waste of talent on that team, that would be Oliver Miller (pun semi-intended). Seriously though the gigantic O was a very good shot blocker and passer; decent stealer and boarder; and shot accurately if rarely. Shame he was a lazy chemistry cancer who ate his way out of the league.
2) You mentioned that they might have won a title with Dumas, but the Suns were missing Ceballos in the 93 finals, and the Bulls in '93 played the worst of the Bulls title teams, possibly due to Dream Team fatigue. As it was the teams had 640 points each over the series, Ceballos could have tipped the balance.
Ceballos wasn't getting major minutes in that playoff run. Dumas was their starting SF since they saw a lot of potential in him and he fit in well. Dumas played very well that series so it's hard to say they missed Ced or that he would've been a difference maker. He had a big game five against Pippen that helped get them back to PHX.

While we're discussing ifs, don't forget the refs gifted them a putback which should not have counted with about 2:20 to go in the fourth in game five to help them get by the 39 W Lakers.

It's funny how a team can be on the verge of losing to a sub.500 team in the first round and most likely would have if not for that call and then go on to give the Bulls a very tough battle.
NugzHeat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 11:39 AM   #9
Owl
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,503
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by NugzHeat3
Ceballos wasn't getting major minutes in that playoff run. Dumas was their starting SF since they saw a lot of potential in him and he fit in well. Dumas played very well that series so it's hard to say they missed Ced or that he would've been a difference maker. He had a big game five against Pippen that helped get them back to PHX.

While we're discussing ifs, don't forget the refs gifted them a putback which should not have counted with about 2:20 to go in the fourth in game five to help them get by the 39 W Lakers.

It's funny how a team can be on the verge of losing to a sub.500 team in the first round and most likely would have if not for that call and then go on to give the Bulls a very tough battle.
Indeed, though looking it up it seems Ced was trying to come back to too early and re-injured himself, so I guess the hypothetical would be what if he hadn't got injured at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-06-15/sports/9306150085_1_cedric-ceballos-nba-finals-home-court-advantage
Ceballos, in his third season out of Cal State-Fullerton, reinjured the same foot that had bothered him for most of the second half of the regular season. He wanted to play through it; he thought he had to play through it. There was so much at stake for the Suns.

The reason I raised Ceballos was 'cause I seem to remember reading about him as a potential difference maker in a book on the Suns from that era (either "Raising to the top ..." or "Breaking the Rules") citing a strong regular season performance against the Bulls. Checking on BR he had one ordinary game vs the Bulls (http://www.basketball-reference.com/...211220PHO.html) and one fairly explosive one (http://www.basketball-reference.com/...303300CHI.html) 28 points in 32 minutes off the bench. Not that any of that proves anything. And yes given Dumas and Ceballos had similar styles there is a limit to how much he would have helped if Dumas was playing well.

Certainly Suns were kinda unreliable/inconsistent in the playoffs in the Barkley era, possibly because they were so reliant on their offense. Mind you the whole West was a little crazy and pretty tight talent-wise that era. Those Suns lost 7 playoff games before the finals (with 2 series going to the wire), Houston lost 5 in 94 (with 1 such series), and 7 in 95 (2 such series). Not to mention the Sonics flaking out twice with the best and joint 3rd best record in '94 and '95 in both years they had the best SRS (points differential accounting for record).

BTW I'm too young to have watched the games live and so am going largely by what I've read, so I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert.

Last edited by Owl : 01-15-2012 at 11:42 AM.
Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 11:43 AM   #10
JohnnySic
green is good
 
JohnnySic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,404
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Dumas had star level talent. He and LaPhonso Ellis could have been big stars at the 3 position in the 90's, but niether panned out (one to drugs, one to injuries).
JohnnySic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 12:49 PM   #11
Go Getter
Wild 100's
 
Go Getter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Wasatch Range
Posts: 14,452
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

I remember him giving Scottie fits in that Finals series.....he had game on O.
Go Getter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #12
JtotheIzzo
Admlnlstrator
 
JtotheIzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wolviapolis
Posts: 14,194
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

KJ, Marjerle and Charles all used to talk about how good this guy was and how the Suns was gonna be Dumas' team sooner rather than later. Guy was an athletic freak who was looking at multiple all star seasons, but sadly he lacked the self-control and discipline needed to keep his life in order.
JtotheIzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #13
JMT
NBA lottery pick
 
JMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,688
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
KJ, Marjerle and Charles all used to talk about how good this guy was and how the Suns was gonna be Dumas' team sooner rather than later. Guy was an athletic freak who was looking at multiple all star seasons, but sadly he lacked the self-control and discipline needed to keep his life in order.

Dumas was as good a college freshman as I'd seen until Durant came along. Different players and a different college game at that time, so he wasn't going to score 30 ppg. But his offensive game was effortless, well rounded, and pro ready. 18/7 on a team where he and John Starks drew ALL the defensive attention.

The worst thing that happened to Richard was success and recognition. He made one bad decision after another, including getting caught stealing a 12 pack from a convenience store. In Stillwater, OK. Where you're possibly the most recognizable person in a town of 30,000 people.

His final two college seasons were a joke. Injury, lack of motivation, poor conditioning. And there's nothing about getting tons of money that's going to help people with flawed character. He proved that with his pro career.

The biggest shame is that Richard was a decent enough guy. Spent more than a little time around him and that team. Knew coaches who worked with him daily and didn't have anything bad to say about him, except his decision making and the company he aloowed around him.

As for the poster that said Oliver Miller was a bigger waste (or waist) of talent, I'd disagree. Miller was always fat and succeeded on an extremely talented college team despite his lousy conditioning. Dumas was an athletic freak who let it all slip away.

Last edited by JMT : 01-15-2012 at 03:00 PM.
JMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 03:33 PM   #14
Force
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,371
Default Re: Lettuce discuss Richard Dumas

Dumas was a damn good talent. One of my favorites. I've started a couple of Dumas threads on this board before. Damn shame he started sniffing the coka.
Force is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:42 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy