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Old 01-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

I never understood why they rank defenses in terms of yards given up instead of points.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Eli is elite status right now.

Holy crap, I had no idea Eli was 31 already Thought for sure he was around 28-29.
Eli is not "elite"

he doesn't have the stats to compare to Rodgers/Brady/Brees
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Eli is not "elite"

he doesn't have the stats to compare to Rodgers/Brady/Brees


Please explain how the 4th best QB in the league, a Super Bowl champion, and now playing in another NFC Championship game, is not considered elite. I get that he's the QB for a rival team, but give the dude some fucking credit.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Please explain how the 4th best QB in the league, a Super Bowl champion, and now playing in another NFC Championship game, is not considered elite. I get that he's the QB for a rival team, but give the dude some fucking credit.
Easy, he doesn't play nearly as good as the other 3

he is NOT in the same class as Brees/Brady/Rodgers

football is a team sport...just because the Giants look hot right now doesn't mean Eli is elite...the barely snuck in the playoffs btw


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...qualified=true
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Rodgers: 45 TDs / 6 INTs...122.5 rating
Brees: 46 TDs / 14 INTs...110.6 rating
Brady: 39 TDs / 12 INTs...105.6 rating

Eli: 29 TDs / 16 INTs...92.9 rating

he isn't there

I hate how QBs get all the cred for wins...people have already forgotten about the 5 game losing streak the Giants had at the end of the year...many games ending on Eli INTs

The Giants beat the Packers so now he is better than Rodgers
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

He doesn't have the stats? He tossed like 5000 yards and 30 touchdowns.

Without as many weapons as the other quarterbacks have.

I don't put Eli is that upper class level yet, but he's clearly in the 4-7 range and depending on how this post-season ends, he'll be knocking on that upper elite status or at the very least leading the second tier if he continues his great play.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Rodgers: 45 TDs / 6 INTs...122.5 rating
Brees: 46 TDs / 14 INTs...110.6 rating
Brady: 39 TDs / 12 INTs...105.6 rating

Eli: 29 TDs / 16 INTs...92.9 rating

he isn't there

I hate how QBs get all the cred for wins...people have already forgotten about the 5 game losing streak the Giants had at the end of the year...many games ending on Eli INTs

The Giants beat the Packers so now he is better than Rodgers

I agree, but a huge part of a quarterbacks place amongst his peers and historically is what he does when it matters most. If he has a knack for playing well and holding his end of the bargain up, then he should be rewarded for that, win or lose.

Eli certainly did that in his first superbowl, and is now continuing that trend so far this year. That's huge.

If Eli goes on to play well vs. a great defense on the road in SF, and then either plays well vs. the Ravens, another great defense, or out-duels Brady...it's going to do wonders for his legacy and overall rankings, as it should.

If he gets carried to it, and the defense just plays amazing and shuts sh!t down, then hopefully people will see it for what it is and not give Manning elite status (Brady, Brees, Rodgers) by virtue of winning alone.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
He doesn't have the stats? He tossed like 5000 yards and 30 touchdowns.

Without as many weapons as the other quarterbacks have.

no he doesn't have "elite stats"...92.9 rating isn't going to cut it...Rodgers is on another planet than Eli with his 122.5 rating

and he DOES have weapons...Nicks and Cruz are the real deal...they are both fantastic WRs...both are arguably top-10 WRs...he is playing with a great WR core

Quote:
I don't put Eli is that upper class level yet, but he's clearly in the 4-7 range and depending on how this post-season ends, he'll be knocking on that upper elite status or at the very least leading the second tier if he continues his great play.

I agree with that...he can't be "elite" if he isn't in the top teir though...that is what "elite" means...being the best of the best
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
true...


Giant's have a "great" D...but perhaps not "elite"

your D is just like your QB...good but not elite


still, my point stands that the defesne wasn't healthy early on...making that 27th ranked thing extremely misleading
i don't think we disagree at all. PDiddy is trying to make it like we are this defensive juggernaut and Eli sucks. If we are a defensive juggernaut, your team are the gods of olympus on defense or something because we are not as good as you. Elite is too strong a word.

I think Eli is at "very good". Good sounds like passable. If Eli is "good" what is your QB? Your QB is good. Eli is very good. Brady is elite.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
i don't think we disagree at all. PDiddy is trying to make it like we are this defensive juggernaut and Eli sucks. If we are a defensive juggernaut, your team are the gods of olympus on defense or something because we are not as good as you. Elite is too strong a word.

I think Eli is at "very good". Good sounds like passable. If Eli is "good" what is your QB? Your QB is good. Eli is very good. Brady is elite.
I think you misworded something in there...I am p.tiddy and I don't think Eli sucks

did you mean you DO agree or DON'T?


no need to break down "good"/"great"/"very good" etc...
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
and he DOES have weapons...Nicks and Cruz are the real deal...they are both fantastic WRs...both are arguably top-10 WRs...he is playing with a great WR core

Of course they are great, but aside from those two they really don't have much that put fear in opposing teams.

In such a tight end league, they have....wait for it...Jake Ballard and Travis Beckum I think. That might be one of the worst tight end rotations in football.

Eli has two outstanding weapons, but he doesn't have the kind of weapons Brady has (best tight end duo in history, best underneath receiver in recent memory in Welker) or Rodgers (beast tight end, best set of wideouts in football) or Brees (beast tight end, beast running back receiver, a very diverse set of wideouts)

That was the point I was making.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #27
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I think you misworded something in there...I am p.tiddy and I don't think Eli sucks

did you mean you DO agree or DON'T?


no need to break down "good"/"great"/"very good" etc...
you've been overstating other parts of the Giants team for weeks now to make a point that Eli is not as good as people say. Our defense is not "elite"
and has not been carrying our team. Our receivers are not bailing out Eli and unless i was asleep all year, Cruz at about week 11/12 got over the drops that he and Manningham were having. Basically giving Cruz credit for Eli and not vice versa is either you not being fair, or not watching the Giants play. Because Cruz gave and Cruz took away, the difference now is the 2 really stupid plays Cruz would do every game (the fumbles, the drops, the running a route 1 yard short on a 3rd down) are now gone.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Eli has two outstanding weapons, but he doesn't have the kind of weapons Brady has (best tight end duo in history, best underneath receiver in recent memory in Welker) or Rodgers (beast tight end, best set of wideouts in football) or Brees (beast tight end, beast running back receiver, a very diverse set of wideouts)

That was the point I was making.
We can't be talking about Jermichael Finley are we?
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Yes, he's a top 10 tight end and is a mismatch weapon for them. The way other teams play him dictates where Rodgers goes with the ball.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: *insert quarterback* won with a terrible defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
and he DOES have weapons...Nicks and Cruz are the real deal...they are both fantastic WRs...both are arguably top-10 WRs...he is playing with a great WR core

Yea, this idea that Eli hasn't had weapons in his career is total bull. Even Manningham who has struggled somewhat this season would be the #2 on a lot of teams and the #1 on a few. And Toomer/Burress/Steve Smith was at least average. Brady won SB's with much less.
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