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Old 02-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #16
millwad
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Shaq is obviously better then Hakeem.

There is no debate to been have.

Shaq from 93-95 was already on par with Hakeem at his absolute Peak.

Rockets only won in 95 because all of his roleplayers exploded in the finals having huge series and coming through time and time again in the Clutch for houstan.

Shaq canceled out Hakeem in that series and Penny cancelled out Drexler.
3/4 games went down to the wire and obviously Orlando would have won G1 if not for Anderson.

Regular Season 1993-1995 : 6 Games
Shaq = 23ppg / 14rpg / 3.5apg / 1.5bpg | 59% shooting
Hakeem = 25ppg / 11rpg / 5apg / 3bpg | 46% shooting

Post Season 1995 : 4 Games
Shaq = 28ppg / 12.5rpg / 6.3apg / 2.5bpg | 60% shooting
Hakeem = 32ppg / 11.5rpg / 5.5apg / 2bpg | 48% shooting

--------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33


------------------------------------------------------------

#12.
Hakeem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 27.7
Top 5 : 24.95
Top 7 : 24.61

Shaq was much better offensively, a better playoff performer... no comparison.

Shaq from 93-95 was not on pair with Hakeem, idiot. Hakeem outplayed Shaq in '95, the same season Shaq was voted 2nd on the MVP ranking, he was not better than that during the 93 and 94 season...

Hakeem in '94 was the MVP, DPOY and finals MVP..

And sure Shaq cancelled out Hakeem in that series, Hakeem clearly outplayed Shaq in two out of four games, Shaq got game 1 and the last one was an obvious tie. But you wouldn't know because you didn't see the series, you couldn't even break down one game when I asked you for it before.

And since when did Shaq say stuff like this while being swep;

"If I'm going to fight you, I'd rather just beat you," he said. "If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it]. . . . I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt." - Shaq

And Hakeem's edge on defense was bigger then Shaq's edge on offense..
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
And Hakeem's edge on defense was bigger then Shaq's edge on offense..

I disagree and Shaq was still a far more impactful player who could produce at a much higher level and exert more of an influence over the outcome of a game.

Also Shaq from 93-95 was very close to Hakeem.

I would also give a small edge to Hakeem for those years but by 95 it was practically a wash.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Shaq was covered by multiple defenders in pretty much every series in the early 00's and was more heavily defended then any player ever in the history of the game.

Hakeem was usually covered 1v1.

Haha, biggest pile of crap ever. Hakeem even got double and triple teams on him in the '86 season vs Kareem in the playoffs and vs the Celtics in the finals. And during his back to backs he got double and triple teams on him constantly, you obviously never saw him play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Shaq destryed DPOY Mutombo.
Dominated against the Sabonis/Sheed/Pippen defense.
Dominated Duncan/DRob defensive duo.
Dominated B. Wallace.
Outplayed Peak Hakeem multiple times and overall played him to a wash his first 3 years in the league.
Held his own and basically played Peak DRob to a wash his first few years.
Outplayed Prime Ewing his first few years in the league.

Destroying Mutombo is not a big deal, the guy is no where close being top 10 and while winning he destroyed a 34 year old Mutombo who only played 26 games in the regular season of that year.

Robinson guarded Shaq and he was way out of his prime, he was washed up when Shaq finally won.

Wallace is an undersized player who wouldn't be no where close the top centers in the '90's.

He didn't play Hakeem to a wash in his 3 first years, in fact he got swept and outplayed by Hakeem and then he started to cry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Yeah... Shaq proved himself against the best Centers outplaying or at worst holding his own against them in his first few years in the league. It's not his fault some of them were old by time he started hitting his Prime years.

Shaq didn't win anything at all against the best centers, the closest was in '95 when Hakeem outplayed and swept him.

Still he faced plenty of excellent defenders and elite defenses in the 00's so he proved his worth then too.

No where close to the centers Hakeem faced during his back to backs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Shaq was far better then Hakeem on the offensive end and defensively he was still always one of the most impactful players in the game year after year pretty much from 93-05. He was one of the best at protecting the paint, blocking shots and M2M Defense. Hakeem was obviously light years better at help defense and steals but he has that edge over almost all Centers except Drob.

He was not far better then Hakeem on the offensive end, Hakeem is one of the greatest scoring centers of all-time and in fact he has the highest PPG average among all the centers of all-time in the playoffs. And defensively it's not even close, Hakeem edge in defense is by far greater then Shaq's on offense.

Hakeem was a multiple DPOY and the all-time shotblocking leader (at least from when it was counted) and Shaq never even made an All-NBa defensive first team...
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
I disagree and Shaq was still a far more impactful player who could produce at a much higher level and exert more of an influence over the outcome of a game.

Also Shaq from 93-95 was very close to Hakeem.

I would also give a small edge to Hakeem for those years but by 95 it was practically a wash.

No, he was not very close to Hakeem from '93 to '95, that's horse shit.

And what is this nonsense about Shaq producing at a much higher level? Hakeem was the freaking MVP, DPOY and finals MVP in '94, how can anyone perform at a much higher level then that?

Hakeem in '95 crushed the league MVP Robinson like no other league MVP has been outplayed before and then he went on to dominating and sweeping Shaq in the finals, the same Shaq who was 2nd on the MVP-list that year.

And fact still remains that Hakeem was a MUCH greater defensive player, it's not even close, he freaking blocked 1000 more shots then Shaq even though Shaq played more games. Hakeem won multiple DPOY's, Shaq never won any. Hakeem was on multiple all-defensive first teams, Shaq was on none. Hakeem is top 10 in steals, Shaq is not even top 250..

Hakeem had a great defensive advantage vs Shaq, way bigger then Shaq's edge on offense.

Last edited by millwad : 02-06-2012 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

And for anyone who reads this thread, I am not picking Hakeem over Shaq, I have them both ranked on the same spot. Both are 2nd in my book after Kareem.

I am just replying to Brian's (32dayz) obvious trolling.. Or maybe he's not even trolling but one thing is for sure, the kid has no brain or basketball knowledge what so ever.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

The rockets swept the magic because Hakeems roleplayers outplayed Shaqs.

Hakeem at best outplayed Shaq by the smallest of margins in that series, it was basically a wash.

From 93-05 I'd say it was a wash between the two or a tiny edge to Hakeem.

Shaqs team won more in the Regular season and Hakeem obviously got the sweep due to his roleplayers stepping up and Shaqs choking in G1.

93 - 95 Shaq =< Peak Hakeem.
Peak Prime Shaq >>> Peak Hakeem.

Career playoff performances.
Shaq >>>>>> Hakeem.

There is no comparison.
Shaq was much closer to Hakeems defense then Hakeem was to his offense, he produced at a much higher level exerted more influence over games and Dominated the best.

DPOY Motombo is one of the best defensive Centers ever. DRob/Duncan combo is one of the best post defenses ever.

lol @ your pathetic understanding of the game.

Hakeem was great but he wasnt as good as Shaq and never dominated the way he did.

BTW outside of the 95 series DRob and Hakeem were pretty close when they faced eachother. It's idiots like you who dont know the history of the game who think Hakeem always dominated DRob like that.

Shaq/Kareem > Wilt > Hakeem
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
No, he was not very close to Hakeem from '93 to '95, that's horse shit.

Hakeem in '95 crushed the league MVP Robinson like no other league MVP has been outplayed before and then Houstan went on to dominating and sweeping Shaq in the finals, the same Shaq who was 2nd on the MVP-list that year.

Actually Hakeem did not outplay Shaq and 3/4 games went down to the wire.

Post Season 1995 : 4 Games
Shaq = 28ppg / 12.5rpg / 6.3apg / 2.5bpg | 60% shooting
Hakeem = 32ppg / 11.5rpg / 5.5apg / 2bpg | 48% shooting

If not for Hakeems roleplayers stepping up especially in the Clutch and Shaqs roleplayers playing poorly and choking the Magic could have easily won the series.

lol @ Shaq holding him to 48% shooting on single coverage while Shaq was double teamed the entire series.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

I actually think Shaq and Hakeem are about even. Lately, I favor Hakeem slightly because he didn't have a real weakness and because the difference between their defense in Olajuwon's favor is bigger than the difference between their offense in Shaq's favor. But it's virtually a toss up to me. I use to have Shaq over Hakeem, but I alternate back and forth. Both are in my top 5.

It is tough though, Shaq was imo, the biggest mismatch in NBA history.

A few things to clear up, though.

You can't really diminish '95 Clyde and prop up 2000 Kobe. Clyde had a playoff run in '95 that was more than comparable to what Kobe did in 2000.

I don't think rings sum it up because Shaq undoubtedly had better casts for most of their careers, however, that alone doesn't make Olajuwon better because while he did have less help, he also won significantly less.

And finally, the hack-a-Shaq strategy was not effective more than not. Teams usually lost against the Lakers when they tried it. And Shaq wasn't routinely removed from games during his prime either. That's a huge misconception.

What usually happened with the hack-a-Shaq(when it was used, which wasn't usually the case) was Phil would see how Shaq responded to it. If he shot decently by his standards and the Lakers maintained or extended their lead, usually the opponent would stop after 3-4 times. If Shaq was really struggling, then Phil might take Shaq out for a minute or 2 until 2 minutes remained and the strategy was no longer available.

But teams didn't usually use it for a reason. 1 is that even a player who only shot 53% like Shaq would more often than not make 1 out of 2. That's giving away a point on average, and then your team has to score at the other end vs a set defense. And it also gets your team in the penalty making it easier for Shaq's teammates to get to the line.

As a rough estimate, for someone like myself who didn't live in LA and would watch Shaq play on national television or when he played NY or New Jersey. I'd say that out of roughly 30 regular season games, I could probably count on one hand how many times the strategy would be used in a regular season. And maybe once or twice in a playoff run.

Teams would use it more in some of those early season games in the seasons when Shaq had horrible early season free throw struggles(similar to Dwight now), but come playoff time, I'm not sure I can ever remember a time when the Lakers lost due to the hack-a-Shaq.

The whole Shaq regularly being taken out of games myth comes from the latter part of Shaq's career. By then Shaq was playing more limited minutes and would in fact play less down the stretch. But I start becoming suspicious over who actually watched Shaq's prime when they act like this was the norm during Shaq's prime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseJuiceBowen
duncan and hakeem were both better players. more skilled more post moves better rebounders better defender better leaders better teamates

only case shaq has is "dominant"

good luck

They weren't better rebounders than Shaq who had back to back title runs with 15+ rpg while scoring 30+ ppg.

Shaq was the best scorer out of the 3. Hakeem was pretty close in that regard and definitely more skilled, but I'll bet on Shaq as being more consistent at putting the ball in the basket. He had to work less hard for his points because of his size, but ultimately, I judge by effectiveness.

Who cares if Duncan had better post moves? It's not like Duncan was even in the same league as Shaq as a scorer anyway. And Shaq wasn't exactly lacking in post moves. Drop step, jump hook, spin move, turnaround on the baseline. He could go over either shoulder, which is all you need with your back to the basket. Had good counters, and could just back most defenders down if the help didn't come.

Even from a skill standpoint, Duncan could only do one thing with his back to the basket that Shaq didn't do much, which was shoot with his left hand.

He had a much better face up game than Shaq, though. But again, nobody with a brain would argue that Shaq and Duncan were comparable scorers.

Last edited by ShaqAttack3234 : 02-06-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Hakeem outside of his Peak was never close to being as impactful as Shaq was on an average year.

Hakeem could only hold his own against Oneal his first 3 years and then was pretty much always dominated by him.

Also Shaq was one of the best defenders ever in turns of protecting the paint and m2m defense while Hakeem outside of his Peak never came close to having Shaqs impact on the offensive end.

Quote:
Shaq's defense vs. Elite big men

I decided to do an analysis of Shaq vs. some of the best 2 way big men of the 90's. That list is David Robinson, Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, and Hakeem Olajuwon. I only did this in their prime seasons so I won't put results up of David Robinson vs. Shaq in 2003 for example.

Note: the PPG numbers are per 36 minutes so that both players could be on an equal playing field.

Expected numbers are by getting that players season averages in FG% and PPG (per 36 minutes)

vs. Ewing 93-98, 18 games:
Expected: 21.7 PPG, 49.4 FG%
Actual: 24.5 PPG, 45.6 FG%

Shaq's numbers vs. Ewing:
Expected: 25.0 PPG, 58.0 FG%
Actual: 25.6 PPG, 54.2 FG%


While Ewing did score quite a bit more than expected, he did it on less efficiency because he shot 24.1 FGA/game in that span vs. Shaq.

vs. Hakeem 93-99, 14 games:
Expected: 22.4 PPG, 51.6 FG%
Actual: 20.3 PPG, 45.3 FG%

Shaq's numbers:
Expected: 23.7 PPG, 57.8 FG%
Actual: 20.1 PPG, 57.4 FG%

Playoffs:
vs. Hakeem, 8 games:
Expected: 22.3 PPG, 51.6 FG%
Actual: 21.9 PPG, 46.5 FG%

Shaq's numbers:
Expected: 24.3 PPG, 57.8 FG%
Actual: 25.2 PPG, 55.6 FG%

Despite the narrative, Shaq did a real good job covering Hakeem in the postseason.

If you are wondering how Hakeem held Shaq way below the expected numbers in the regular season despite Shaq right at his expected FG%, it's because Shaq shot 16.9 FGA/game in those games, but more importantly only 6.9 FTA/game.

vs. Robinson 93-01, 19 games:
Expected: 20.3 PPG, 50.8 FG%
Actual: 20.4 PPG, 47.4 FG%

Shaq's numbers:
Expected: 25.5 PPG, 57.8 FG%
Actual: 24.2 PPG, 55.3 FG%

playoffs:
vs. Robinson, 8 games:
Expected: 18.8 PPG, 49.4 FG%
Actual: 17.1 PPG, 44.1 FG%

Shaq's numbers:
Expected: 25.4 PPG, 57.4 FG%
Actual: 23.4 PPG, 51.2 FG%

David Robinson actually did the best job in stopping Shaq.

vs. Alonzo Mourning, 93-02, 15 games:
Expected: 22.7 PPG, 52.5 FG%
Actual: 23.9 PPG, 44.3 FG%

Shaq's numbers:
Expected: 25.4 PPG, 57.8 FG%
Actual: 28.6 PPG, 56.2 FG%

As you can see, Shaq completely cominated Zo.

Total numbers (per 36 minutes), 66 games:
Shaq: 24.7 PPG, 11.5 Reb, 55.6 FG%
Elite: 22.3 PPG, 10.1 Reb, 45.7 FG%

Expected vs. Actual numbers:
Elite guys:
Expected: 22.0 PPG, 50.8 FG%
Actual: 22.3 PPG, 18.6 FGA, 45.7 FG%
+0.3 PPG, -5.1 FG%

Shaq:
Expected: 25.3 PPG, 57.9 FG%
Actual: 24.7 PPG, 17.9 FGA, 55.6 FG%
-0.6 PPG, -2.3 FG%

As you can see, overall Shaq was much better vs. the competition. When you get to the expected numbers, it shows that Shaq's defense was actually elite. Despite allowing more points than expected, he allowed 5.1 FG% less than what these players usually did. The reason for the disparity is because those big men actually shot more per 36 minutes than Shaq. Plus Shaq outrebounded these guys by 1.4 Reb per 36 minutes.

Though Shaq's numbers did fall a bit. Not that much, but Robinson and Ewing both showed why they had elite reps defensively.

Conclusion:
-Shaq's defense was elite

-David Robinson is the best vs. Shaq
-Shaq is better overall than the elite guys head to head
-Shaq was better than Hakeem in the postseason head to head
-Mourning had no chance vs. Shaq
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

who cares. this is splitting hairs. both great.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
The rockets swept the magic because Hakeems roleplayers outplayed Shaqs.

Hakeem at best outplayed Shaq by the smallest of margins in that series, it was basically a wash.

From 93-05 I'd say it was a wash between the two or a tiny edge to Hakeem.

Shaqs team won more in the Regular season and Hakeem obviously got the sweep due to his roleplayers stepping up and Shaqs choking in G1.

93 - 95 Shaq =< Peak Hakeem.
Peak Prime Shaq >>> Peak Hakeem.

Career playoff performances.
Shaq >>>>>> Hakeem.

There is no comparison.
Shaq was much closer to Hakeems defense then Hakeem was to his offense, he produced at a much higher level exerted more influence over games and Dominated the best.

DPOY Motombo is one of the best defensive Centers ever. DRob/Duncan combo is one of the best post defenses ever.

lol @ your pathetic understanding of the game.

Hakeem was great but he wasnt as good as Shaq and never dominated the way he did.

BTW outside of the 95 series DRob and Hakeem were pretty close when they faced eachother. It's idiots like you who dont know the history of the game who think Hakeem always dominated DRob like that.

Shaq/Kareem > Wilt > Hakeem

Hakeem still outplayed Shaq in the finals, even Shaq will tell you that a la;

Quote:
"If I'm going to fight you, I'd rather just beat you," he said. "If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it]. . . . I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me.

And you're overrating prime Shaq and his competition. Only an idiot would claim that he wasn't a better player during his peak but to claim that he was crazy much better is silly.

Shaq was 2nd on the MVP list in '95, the only year he was higher on the MVP ranking was when he got his MVP trophy in 2000. The '95 season was his 2nd best place on the MVP ranking list..

And Shaq team's won more regular season games due him having better players by his side, playing with Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Nash, KG, Pierce, Rondo and Allen is way more help then what Hakeem ever had.

And still, Brian, Shaq never even made an all-defensive first team during his whole career, Hakeem is considered to be one of the greatest defensive players of all-time. Hakeem has DPOYS, Shaq has none, Hakeem got multiple first all-defensive first team nominations, Shaq got none, Hakeem is the leading shotblocker in the NBA, Shaq is way behind, Hakeem is top 10 in steals, Shaq is not even top 250.

But then if we look at the scoring and offense, although that's an edge for Shaq, Hakeem still held his own. Hakeem is still the center with the highest PPG average in the playoffs of all-time. Hakeem was still top 10 in scoring 9 years while he was in the league, Shaq was top 10 in 10 of his years. And yes, the edge on offense is Shaq's but you are seriously overrating his offense in comparison with Hakeem's offense. Hakeem is still top 9 in points of all-time which makes him one of the greatest scorest of all-time as well...

Shaq was no where close being one of the greatest defenders of all-time, the guy was never even on an all-defensive first team during his career, come on now, Brian. I am toying you.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:53 PM   #27
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Shaq was the better play and its not close.

Better production.
Better impact on the offense end.
Consistently led his teams to 50+ wins even when he had garbage casts.

Shaq didnt get 1st teams on defense because the award is usually given to the wrong player or to specalists like Mutombo/Wallace.

Hakeem is the best defensive C ever in a class where I'd only put DRob in but Shaq is in the class right after that.

He was one of the best in the league in terms of M2M Defense, shot blocking and protecting the paint.
Hakeem was better at help defense and steals which is the main reason he was a better defender.

Shaq was a better playoff performer, produced at a higher level, had an incomparably more dominant Prime and faced the same and better competition.

There is no debate to who is the better player unless your a biased troll named spitwad.

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Old 02-06-2012, 06:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Hakeem outside of his Peak was never close to being as impactful as Shaq was on an average year.

Hakeem could only hold his own against Oneal his first 3 years and then was pretty much always dominated by him.

Also Shaq was one of the best defenders ever in turns of protecting the paint and m2m defense while Hakeem outside of his Peak never came close to having Shaqs impact on the offensive end.

Well, Hakeem outplayed Shaq when he was 32 years old. Shaq at the same time wasn't even carrying the load in terms of scoring for his Miami Heat, Wade was.

And Shaq still was no where close Hakeem in terms of defending, you retard. Shaq never EVER made even one all-defensive first team in his whole career. Shaq blocked 1000 less shots then Hakeem even though Hakeem played less games. Hakeem is number 1 in blocks of all-time, Shaq is not. Hakeem is top 8 in terms of steals, Shaq is not even top 250. Hakeem has multiple DPOYS, Shaq has 0, Hakeem was on the all-defensive first team multiple times, Shaq was never.

And outside of Hakeem's peak? In '86 as a 2nd year pro he lead his Houston Rockets past the last year's world champs, a team with Kareem, Magic and Worthy, in the WCF and he absolutely destroyed the Laker bigs. And he went on the toying with the Celtics in the finals as well but they lost that series in 6 games but it should be said that both the Lakers of '86 and Celtics of '86 both were better then any team Shaq won against while winning it all..
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by millwad
And Shaq still was no where close Hakeem in terms of defending.

Shaq is #3 All-Time in playoff blocked shots only 13 less then Hakeem.



1st teams were given to specialists in the late 90's / 00's

Shaq was 2nd in DPOY voting in 00 and finished in the Top 5 as late as 2005 and he was an even better defender in the 90's.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Shaq was the better play and its not close.

Better production.
Better impact on the offense end.
Consistently led his teams to 50+ wins even when he had garbage casts.

Shaq didnt get 1st teams on defense because the award is usually given to the wrong player or to specalists like Mutombo/Wallace.

Hakeem is the best defensive C ever in a class where I'd only put DRob in but Shaq is in the class right after that.

He was one of the best in the league in terms of M2M Defense, shot blocking and protecting the paint.
Hakeem was better at help defense and steals which is the main reason he was a better defender.

Shaq was a better playoff performer, produced at a higher level, had an incomparably more dominant Prime and faced the same and better competition.

There is no debate to who is the better player unless your a biased troll named spitwad.


Still not replying to my comments, you just keep on your trolling while getting destroyed as usual, Brian.

Shaq didn't have garbage cast, he had way better teammates then Hakeem and had the luxury of playing with the greatest guards of his era and even of all-time and in the worst center era of all-time.

Haha, so how was Shaq a better defensive player then Mutombo and Wallace? How is it wrong that they got picked over Shaq when it came to defense when they both were better defenders..

Haha, and you mean that Shaq is a better defender then guys like Wilt, Thurmond, Russell, Mourning, Wallace, Robinson, Duncan etc...

And Shaquille played garbage centers in his prime and when he won, it's not a thing to be proud of that you stop guys like Mutombo..

And sure, Brian, Shaq faced better competition..
Hakeem won while he faced Ewing, Robinson and Shaq himself.. Shaq won while he faced out of prime Sabonis, old fart Mutombo, old fart Smits etc..
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