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Old 02-07-2012, 02:33 PM   #16
kennethgriffin
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
And Eddie Jones put up 13/4 in 96. He was hardly some established star. Quite a few rookies could start in his place coming in.

its not always about numbers. sometimes its about potential.. and eddie had more proven potential to be an nba ready starter on a contending team

he was averaging 50% fg's and near 37% threes that year aswell dont forget ( while being a lock down defender )

and obviously when you have cebellos averaging 21

magic johnson averaging 15

van exel averaging 15

campbel averaging 14

and divac averaging 13

then youd understand why a guy like jones couldnt get his points.

when you have 6 guys in double figures on a team run by magic and nick.. its hard to call your own shots


and most importantly... the team in 97 was run by a coach that didnt like using rookies. and hated when they would score allot. del harris was not a rookie friendly coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Rookie Lebron would've easily started over Eddie Jones. It wasn't a "respect" thing. Eddie Jones was just better then Kobe at that time.


never... not with eddie coming off 50% fg's and 37% threes with his defense

and not with del harris

Last edited by kennethgriffin : 02-07-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

It's not the same situation and it never was.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

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Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
lmfao kobe sha*t all over prime duncan on the regular and won titles with 29ppg at the same time

kobe (and MDE/best front line) gets it done against any prime legend of any era

Fixed. I shudder to think how many more Duncan would have won playing beside Prime Shaq for 8 years. He won 3 with little ole Parker (#28 draft pick) and crazy Manu (#57) and 1 without them.

Back to the OT: it's a different age now. Back then, superstars carry their teams to a championship while team mates grow and develop and eventually lift some of the load off the superstar. Now, it's stars ganging up together. Duncan did it the old-fashioned way and OKC seems to be following down that path - drafting well and sticking together through the growing pains.

I'm going to get ragged on for this - but Kobe needs to give Bynum more touches and let him develop - c'mon 20/20 vs 1-11. Keep on chucking, Kobe.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

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scoring wise maybe. but your forgetting that eddie jones was a 2nd team all defender

and even if lebron was better. he would still be forced to come off the bench just out of respect for the other guy

you have to earn your spot. especially on a winning team with expectations.

No you dont. In the rare cases where a great player goes to an already good team he doesnt have to prove he should start. You find a place for great players. Plenty of rookies come in and displace the vets. In all likelyhood Lebron would have just started at the 3. Or Jones would. Lebron was 6'8'' 245 as a rookie. He wasnt a 185 pound string. Lebron was ready to go at vets in every way from day one.

How he compares to prime Kobe isnt an issue. But Lebron at 18 was the size of a power forward already. I was on here during his senior year and legends, coaches, and players were saying he could start in HS on every team in the league.

Kobe could have in a...lets throw him out there since we suck and let him grow. Lebron could earn a spot on any team.

Quote:
if the coach started lebron over jones and they lost. everyone would have blamed the coach and said "LA would have won if they started jones"

Coaches get blamed anyway.

Quote:
i'm not saying a rookie kobe is as good as a rookie lebron... lebron was clearly better because he had an nba ready body

fact is lebron would not have started on a contender with allstars infront of him


You saying its a fact doesnt mean it is. And calling Jones and Nick all stars doesnt mean they were at the time(neither was at the time the season started...Nick wasnt for 2 years). Players as good as Lebron have rarely been benched regardless of who else is on the team. It happens....but its rare. Players as good as 96 Kobe...arent usually starters.

Lebron by playing ability...was a starter. Kobe wasnt. Kobe might not have started on some lottery teams in 96. Not to open the season. He just wasnt. He put up 5 points on 40%, 3 points on 33%, 11 on 47%, and 5 points on 26% his first 4 months. And he wasnt a good defender...or able to really stand up to NBA players strength wise....he made bad decisions...shot too much...

He just wasnt a usual NBA starter. Lebron was. And having a not quite all star at the 2 couldnt hide it. Rookie Lebron would be the second best player on that team.

Rookie Lebron....Grant Hill...Penny...plenty of rookies would start on the 97 Lakers. Even if it meant playing them or Eddie at the 3.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

MJ like any other All-time great player could not win a championship on his own, there are so many variables contributing to a great player winning a championship which sometimes they dwarf that very player's contribution.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

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Originally Posted by guy
I keep hearing people say this whenever Lebron not winning a title yet comes up. Its not the same. Stop bringing it up.

1. Lebron was 26 at the end of last season, his 8th season. Jordan was 26 at the end of 1989, his 5th season. Lebron has 3 years more NBA experience and 3 more chances at the same age.
2. Jordan had never choked and shrunk for an entire series the way Lebron has the past 2 seasons.
3. Jordan's teams in his first 5 seasons never lost as the favorite nor were they as good as Lebron's teams in the past 3 seasons, ESPECIALLY last season.

Point is Lebron is NOT on Jordan's pace like people want to imply when they bring this up and he's already had monumental failures that Jordan's never had.

only idiots who bring this up are implying that lbj is on jordan's pace.
they are implying that he can still have a historically great career, despite
his postseason play thus far.

Last edited by chips93 : 02-07-2012 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
its not always about numbers. sometimes its about potential.. and eddie had more proven potential to be an nba ready starter on a contending team

and most importantly... the team in 97 was run by a coach that didnt like using rookies. and hated when they would score allot. del harris was not a rookie friendly coach


never... not with eddie coming off 50% fg's and 37% threes with his defense

and not with del harris

You are overrating the sh** out of E. Jones.

Eddie Jones in his playoff elimination series.

97 : 10.2ppg / 3rpg / 2.4 APG on 37% shooting.
98 : 15ppg / 4rpg / 3 APG on 41% shooting.

Kobe from 97-99 in playoff elimination series.

97 : 8ppg / 2rpg / 1.8 APG. 31% shooting
98 : 10ppg / 2rpg / 1 APG. 36% shooting
99 : 21ppg / 6.5rpg / 3.5 APG. 43% shooting

Young Kobe was bad... not comparable to Young Lebron or Young Wade.


Wade from 04-06 in playoff elimination series.
04 : 21ppg / 4rpg / 5.7 APG on 49% shooting
05 : 26ppg / 4.5rpg / 4.5 APG on 48% shooting
06 : 35ppg / 7.8rpg / 3.8 APG on 47% shooting

Lebron from 04-06 in playoff elimination series.
06 : 26.5 / 8.5rpg / 6apg on 44% shooting
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
No you dont. In the rare cases where a great player goes to an already good team he doesnt have to prove he should start. You find a place for great players. Plenty of rookies come in and displace the vets. In all likelyhood Lebron would have just started at the 3. Or Jones would. Lebron was 6'8'' 245 as a rookie. He wasnt a 185 pound string. Lebron was ready to go at vets in every way from day one.

How he compares to prime Kobe isnt an issue. But Lebron at 18 was the size of a power forward already. I was on here during his senior year and legends, coaches, and players were saying he could start in HS on every team in the league.

Kobe could have in a...lets throw him out there since we suck and let him grow. Lebron could earn a spot on any team.



Coaches get blamed anyway.




You saying its a fact doesnt mean it is. And calling Jones and Nick all stars doesnt mean they were at the time(neither was at the time the season started...Nick wasnt for 2 years). Players as good as Lebron have rarely been benched regardless of who else is on the team. It happens....but its rare. Players as good as 96 Kobe...arent usually starters.

Lebron by playing ability...was a starter. Kobe wasnt. Kobe might not have started on some lottery teams in 96. Not to open the season. He just wasnt. He put up 5 points on 40%, 3 points on 33%, 11 on 47%, and 5 points on 26% his first 4 months. And he wasnt a good defender...or able to really stand up to NBA players strength wise....he made bad decisions...shot too much...

He just wasnt a usual NBA starter. Lebron was. And having a not quite all star at the 2 couldnt hide it. Rookie Lebron would be the second best player on that team.

Rookie Lebron....Grant Hill...Penny...plenty of rookies would start on the 97 Lakers. Even if it meant playing them or Eddie at the 3.


no he wouldnt

no way del harris A COACH WHO HATED ROOKIES starts lebron A BALL DOMINANT PLAYER with nick van exel on the floor

all while benching a guy who was a deadly three point shooter at near 40% ( which lebron wasnt )

all while benching a guy who was a proven scorer at 50% fg's ( which lebron wasnt )

all while benching a guy who was a deadly lock down defender ( which lebron wasnt )


to start a guy who was unproven in the nba with 41% shooting, 29% threes, and shot air ball free throws at times

people on here are VASTLY overrated rookie lebron... carmelo should have won rookie of the year. PERIOD

enough
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
only idiots who bring this up are implying that lbj is on jordan's pace.

they are implying that he can still have a historically great career, despite

his postseason play thus far.

They are at least implying that Lebron could still accomplish close to what Jordan did. They are ignoring the fact that its not easy at all, that Lebron doesn't necessarily have as much time left, and that so far he's shown that he's clearly not as great of a player as Jordan.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
Rookie Lebron was 1000x better then Rookie Kobe

Lebron in his first 3 years was 1000x better then Kobe in his first 3 years

Finally you post the truth.

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Old 02-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
only idiots who bring this up are implying that lbj is on jordan's pace.

they are implying that he can still have a historically great career.

He can still have a great career, that's not the issue. The real issue is that his fans keep trying to put him on par with Jordan(while at the same time, saying Kobe isn't in his league), when he and Jordan don't have any similarities. It's just like how they were trying to compare Magic been drafted to the Lakers, to Lebron being a free agent and CHOOSING to go to Miami, as supposedly the same thing. They're trying to draw a conclusion to a point that was never there to begin with.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Finally you post the truth.


lmfao about the only thing lebron fans got on kobe is "rookie production"

good for lebron.. he came into the nba at 6-8, 240 on HGH

kobe came into the league at 6-6, 190 with no muscle

woopy

congrats lebron fans


kobes been the more tallented player his entire life and actually did something with it
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #28
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Oh so your case is....he wouldnt because he wouldnt. I see.

And what reason is there to not start all 3 at once?

If Kobe walked in as 99 Kobe(roughly the level of rookie Lebron...id say 2000 Kobe was better than rookie lebron) all 3 of them would play.

And rookie Carmelo could be a starter on most teams too. Including the 97 Lakers.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

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kobes been on the most talented teams and with the most talented players his entire life and actually did something with it

Agreed.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Oh so your case is....he wouldnt because he wouldnt. I see.

And what reason is there to not start all 3 at once?

If Kobe walked in as 99 Kobe(roughly the level of rookie Lebron...id say 2000 Kobe was better than rookie lebron) all 3 of them would play.

And rookie Carmelo could be a starter on most teams too. Including the 97 Lakers.

your case is... he would because he would


i'm giving you comon sense

del harris = doesnt start rookies

eddie jones = more proven nba ready

la lakers = expectations to win a title

eddie jones = coming off massive highlights in 96 with 50% fg's,37%3's

lebron james = coming off unproven highschool



this is comon sense... this isnt cleveland. its los angeles

this isnt a joke franchise... its the most valuable franchise


what happend when kobe had big scoring games as a rookie and a second year player? his coach would bench him.. they didnt like it. they werent having it.
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