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Old 02-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #61
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

ummm.....I hope you realize lebron came in when he was in highschool, so of course he hasnt won anything at the same age as Michael. He's been in the league one more year than Michael, and still hasn't gotten a ring. All things considered, he's still a great player, and he still has plenty of time to get a ring.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #62
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
you are making a pretty wild generalisation as to the motivations of all the people who have pointed out this trivial fact.

personally, i think its possible that lebron wins plenty of championships. i dont know how likely it is, but its possible.

and i think most people who point this out think the same thing

i dont know, maybe you are ranting about a small minority of dumb posters that i dont pay attention to (and maybe if they are so dumb, you should ignore them too?)

This is what alot of people have said. Not just on message boards, but I've heard it in the media as well.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #63
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
1. When people say "Jordan didnt had a ring until he was 27-28" they mean that Lebron has time to achieve those accomplishments aswell... because it is the age that is the countdown... not how many NBA seasons you played... its the age that is the problem...

Mileage and age contributes to it. Your right that he does have some time, but when people compare it to Jordan's situation it implies a great deal of confidence that ignores the fact that Lebron has had alot more seasons then Jordan had up until this age, which means he's had more chances and failed and he has more mileage then Jordan did meaning he might not have as much time left as Jordan did at this point. It ignores the fact that Lebron had more seasons and better teams and failed and his failures have been much worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
2. Lebron had 3 years NBA experience in a scrub team... and Jordan had 3 years College/NCAA Championship experience....... i would think from a basketball standpoint Jordan had better basketball experience at similar age coming in to the NBA...

Coming into the NBA? Meaning Jordan at 21 and Lebron at 18? Sure. But no way does Jordan have more experience then Lebron through age 26. And you act like Jordan didn't waste much of his career through that age on scrub teams.

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Originally Posted by pauk
3. NBA experience will help you as a player... but will not win you championship... BEST TEAM wins the championship, not the best player... If Lebron got his Pippen and Rodman, Kukoc, Phil Jackson and so on.... im sure he could have won a championship aswell.......

LOL. How about Wade and Bosh? You know, a player that actually has led a team to a title? The 2009 Cavs, 2010 Cavs and 2011 Heat were easily better then any team Jordan from 1984 to 1989, which was when he turned 26. At the same age, Lebron has played more seasons and had better teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
4. Jordan didnt shrink? (He actually did perform under his standards in a bunch of series, will be glad to drop you some facts if you want)
In terms of PPG? Ofcourse not... unlike Lebron, Jordan made sure he chucked at least 25-30 FGA every game.... Lebron is more of a point-forward, when he is not in offensive rythm.. he doesnt chuck.... Jordan did, kindof similar to Kobe in that way.......
and how can you play good and lose a game?? there is no such thing..... you can have good stats and lose a game.... but thats another topic...
But to lose a series/game means Jordan most probably played bad in the 4th/clutch or simply couldnt do it enough to close out the games/series......
Jordan didnt either have the likes of Wade & Bosh to grab away his shot attempts.....

Jordan's had bad series, but he never shrank, choked, disappeared, played like he didn't care, and played in fear in the majority of a series the way Lebron has the past 2 seasons against the Celtics in 2010 and Mavs in 2011. There's a difference between just having a bad series and doing what Lebron the last 2 years. I would say Lebron had bad series in 2007 vs. the Spurs and 2008 vs. the Celtics, but I wouldn't say he choked or any of the other things I said. One is a question of effort and leadership, which has a huge effect on the rest of the team, the other isn't.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
1990-91 isiah played half a season due to injury

never recovered... playoff average dipped from 20/5/8 on 46% to 13/4/8 on 40%

87 was his last all nba team
This is flawed reasoning. Your point would be valid if the bulls beat the pistons in 7 closely contested games. The bulls swept the pistons. With 2 of the first 3 games not really being close. The pistons realized they weren't good enough to beat the bulls and basically gave up in game 4.


Not even prime isiah thomas was good enough to swing that series that far.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:18 PM   #65
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Its really not hard. You give Lebron credit for overachieving hugely overall on the Cavs. You hammer him for his weird game against Boston in 2010....and you hammer him for his dreadful finals last year.

You simply can't blame Lebron for not winning it on those Cavs teams. They weren't championship contending teams. What other players in NBA history would you expect to lead those Cavs teams to titles?

MJ and Wilt? Maybe...maybe the only other players in history that they might challenge for titles in some of those years.

I really don't see anybody else. Bird and Magic? Nope. Kareem? Nope. Russell? Nope. Shaq and Duncan? Nope. Hakeem? Maybe they make a great run or something, but it wouldn't be expected. Kobe? Nope.

Its just not fair to hold Lebron to a standard that pretty much every all time great could not be fairly held to.

Blame Lebron for his crap game in 2010 against Boston and for his awful finals....then we go from there. But this idea that Lebron has had all these great chances to win titles is simply not true. Last year was his only year in which he had a legit championship team around him....



And....rookie Lebron would start on every single team in the league. Not even a question. You find a place for guys like him. I can't believe people are debating that. Its the ****ing NBA....not high school. You play the best players that can help your team the most. Rookie Lebron was a clear NBA starter....Rookie Kobe simply wasn't.

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Old 02-07-2012, 05:20 PM   #66
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT U

Hey GUY, just remember this... Talkin about failures... ''I failed and failed many times. And that is why I succeed.''
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #67
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Its really not hard. You give Lebron credit for overachieving hugely overall on the Cavs. You hammer him for his weird game against Boston in 2010....and you hammer him for his dreadful finals last year.

You simply can't blame Lebron for not winning it on those Cavs teams. They weren't championship contending teams. What other players in NBA history would you expect to lead those Cavs teams to titles?

MJ and Wilt? Maybe...maybe the only other players in history that they might challenge for titles in some of those years.

I really don't see anybody else. Bird and Magic? Nope. Kareem? Nope. Russell? Nope. Shaq and Duncan? Nope. Hakeem? Maybe they make a great run or something, but it wouldn't be expected. Kobe? Nope.

Its just not fair to hold Lebron to a standard that pretty much every all time great could not be fairly held to.

Blame Lebron for his crap game in 2010 against Boston and for his awful finals....then we go from there. But this idea that Lebron has had all these great chances to win titles is simply not true. Last year was his only year in which he had a legit championship team around him....



And....rookie Lebron would start on every single team in the league. Not even a question. You find a place for guys like him. I can't believe people are debating that. Its the ****ing NBA....not high school. You play the best players that can help your team the most. Rookie Lebron was a clear NBA starter....Rookie Kobe simply wasn't.

He hasn't had a lot of chances. But he's had significantly better chances then Jordan did up until that age and regardless of what they've had around him, Lebron hasn't shown that he has anywhere close to the mentality to win that Jordan had.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
He hasn't had a lot of chances. But he's had significantly better chances then Jordan did up until that age and regardless of what they've had around him, Lebron hasn't shown that he has anywhere close to the mentality to win that Jordan had.

Most people here don't really care that he's failed guy because the truth is.. is that he still has time to make that up. He's 27 years old; still younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. That's all the supporters care about. People only believe he has time to rack up the titles because Jordan racked up the titles at a later stage in his career. That's all there is to it.

I can't really argue with those facts either. I just don't think the Miami experiment will play out like so many think here.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

I just want to know what the hardcore Lebron fans going to say when he fails to win it this year. Oh but wait, he has 1 year left to turn 28 before his Jordan Countdown is up.



Jordan never lost lateral drive quickness at 28.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:07 PM   #70
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

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Originally Posted by cteach111
Most people here don't really care that he's failed guy because the truth is.. is that he still has time to make that up. He's 27 years old; still younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. That's all the supporters care about. People only believe he has time to rack up the titles because Jordan racked up the titles at a later stage in his career. That's all there is to it.

I can't really argue with those facts either. I just don't think the Miami experiment will play out like so many think here.

But, there is simply no basis for EVER comparing LeBron to Jordan at this point. At all. Jordan got it done in his 7th year. LeBron is on his 9th. Jordan never lost a Finals. James not only is 0-2, but completely failed to distinguish himself in his first Finals and then deserves the majority of the blame for the loss in the second.

On top of that, I would argue that MJ never had a legitimate chance to win a title before 1991. Maybe they get past the Bad Boys in 1990 if Scottie doesn't have his migraine game in Game 7.

LeBron, on the other hand has had the chance to win titles since 2008. The Cavs would have beaten the Celtics if James hadn't shot 36% for the series and particularly 2/18 in Game 1. If they had won as they should've, CLE would've rematched the Pistons in the ECFs and then faced the Lakers against whom they were 2-0 that year.

Then in 2010 and 2011, of course, he just went AWOL in Game 5 of the Celtics series where he had homecourt and went AWOL for 5 games in the mother****ing NBA Finals in 2011.

Jordan, by contrast, has zero failures in terms of performance in the playoffs, or perhaps one first-round series early in his career that qualifies. But, LeBron's so-far blunderous playoff resume disqualifies him from any comparison to the GOAT.

Last edited by jrong : 02-07-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:09 PM   #71
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Yearning
I just want to know what the hardcore Lebron fans going to say when he fails to win it this year. Oh but wait, he has 1 year left to turn 28 before his Jordan Countdown is up.



Jordan never lost lateral drive quickness at 28.

This is true.

Although i'm a big LeBron fan, his position and Jordan's were definitely not the same.

And they're mostly different in their mentality. If LeBron doesn't win a title this year... he'll barely sniff top 10 no matter what does he do. It's the right time where he has to prove is he a legend or just a really great player..
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:13 PM   #72
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrong
But, there is simply no basis for EVER comparing LeBron to Jordan at this point. At all. Jordan got it done in his 7th year. LeBron is on his 9th. Jordan never lost a Finals. James not only is 0-2, but completely failed to distinguish himself in his first Finals and then deserves the majority of the blame for the loss in the second.

On top of that, I would argue that MJ never had a legitimate chance to win a title before 1991. Maybe they get past the Bad Boys in 1990 if Scottie doesn't have his migraine game in Game 7.

LeBron, on the other hand has had the chance to win titles since 2008. The Cavs would have beaten the Celtics if James hadn't shot 36% for the series and particularly 2/18 in Game 1. If they had won as they should've, CLE would've rematched the Pistons in the ECFs and then faced the Lakers against whom they were 2-0 that year.

Then in 2010 and 2011, of course, he just went AWOL in Game 5 of the Celtics series where he had homecourt and went AWOL for 5 games in the mother****ing NBA Finals in 2011.

Jordan, by contrast, has zero failures in terms of performance in the playoffs, or perhaps one first-round series early in his career that qualifies. But, LeBron's so-far blunderous playoff resume disqualifies him from any comparison to the GOAT.

Fair points, expect the last part.

James has failed in the Finals vs the Mavericks (no excuse here), Game 5 of the 2010 playoffs where he basically quit and that's about it. Jordan has put a bad series for his standard in 85, when he faced the best perimeter (and arguably overall) defender in his prime, Sidney Moncrief and was just a rookie.

Since i give pass to LeBron about his 07 Finals, where he led a not so great team to the Finals, i give Jordan the pass here as well.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #73
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

the question here isn't about Lebron and Jordan...it's about Lebron still being able to cement his legacy with mulitple championships.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #74
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrong
But, there is simply no basis for EVER comparing LeBron to Jordan at this point. At all. Jordan got it done in his 7th year. LeBron is on his 9th. Jordan never lost a Finals. James not only is 0-2, but completely failed to distinguish himself in his first Finals and then deserves the majority of the blame for the loss in the second.

On top of that, I would argue that MJ never had a legitimate chance to win a title before 1991. Maybe they get past the Bad Boys in 1990 if Scottie doesn't have his migraine game in Game 7.

LeBron, on the other hand has had the chance to win titles since 2008. The Cavs would have beaten the Celtics if James hadn't shot 36% for the series and particularly 2/18 in Game 1. If they had won as they should've, CLE would've rematched the Pistons in the ECFs and then faced the Lakers against whom they were 2-0 that year.

Then in 2010 and 2011, of course, he just went AWOL in Game 5 of the Celtics series where he had homecourt and went AWOL for 5 games in the mother****ing NBA Finals in 2011.

Jordan, by contrast, has zero failures in terms of performance in the playoffs, or perhaps one first-round series early in his career that qualifies. But, LeBron's so-far blunderous playoff resume disqualifies him from any comparison to the GOAT.

You make some good points. I don't really agree that he failed in 2008/2009. However you can definitely point to specific instances in 2010/2011.

The point is though that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because he's still young enough to turn things around. Those are the facts and that's all that really matters. His failures don't mean much at this point when you compare him to Jordan.

You continue to say "so far" and "at this point" which only reaffirms what I've been saying. Lebron still has time.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #75
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Default Re: Jordan not winning yet at Lebron's age is not the same thing: STOP BRINGING IT UP

I want to know why people (not just Lebron fans) jump the gun when they mention championships. Let's see if he can even win one championship and a FMVP yet alone multiple.
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