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Old 02-14-2012, 03:30 AM   #1
iDefend5
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Default Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

Simple question, I saw that this came up a lot in the Kobe-Duncan thread I made.

I think Kobe was better than Shaq in 2003 and 2004 although it sounds like some people believe Shaq was better the entire time.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

No shaq ran the show
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

Kobe was better when Shaq let him be better.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

Shaq was better every single year. Kobe led the team in PPG those years because his ego is even bigger than Shaqs and wanted to be the man. In terms of value Shaq was always the best. An entry pass to Shaq is one of the simplest yet most effective plays in NBA History. Not many things can compare and Shaq was still dominant in 03 and 04. Shaq was an intimidation factor that nothing in NBA history compares. People were scared to drive against him and opposing bigmen had nightmares before they played him. There was simply no way to guard him even in those years. You would have to hope Kobe wants to be the hero and chucks up ill-advised shots which happened in the 04 Finals.

Just ask any NBA Coach who was more unstoppable at the time.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

Here was the MVP voting from 2001-2004

2000-2001 season
Shaq - 3rd in MVP voting
Kobe - 9th in MVP voting

2001-2002 season
Shaq - 3rd in MVP voting
Kobe - 5th in MVP voting

2002-2003 season
Shaq - 5th in MVP voting
Kobe - 3rd in MVP voting

203-2004 season
Shaq - 6th in MVP voting
Kobe - 5th in MVP voting


Depending on how much you value MVP voting..
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

You can make a case for 2002-03 and 2003-04 seasons but he wasn't undisputed best player in the LAL when Shaq was a Laker.

Shaq still was a 28/11/3/2 player in 02-03 season. IMO, almost as impressive as Kobe's regular season numbers. Shaq had the edge on numbers in the palyoffs; Shaq was 27/15/4/3 and Kobe was 32/5/5. Also Lakers went 5-10 when Shaq wasn't playing. I'd say Shaq was better than Kobe in 2002-03 season.

Similar things can be mentioned for 2003-04 season also. That's why I'd say; No, he wasn't.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

In the seasons when the Lakers were creating their dynasty (2000-02), Shaq was the man, which are really the decisive years when making this argument.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

Shaq was the man. They win 4 in a row maybe more if Kobe doesn't think otherwise.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

concurrently? probably not. i'd argue there was almost no one better than shaq in that period though. shaq could have gone to any team. he was going to be the #1 option on that team, save duncan and possibly AI. neither of those would have been options however so it's a moot point. if you want to cherry pick certain years where players would have taken over, go ahead. between 24-30, shaq was going to be the #1 option. overall? 05-06 kobe can make a case

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Old 02-14-2012, 07:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

What kind of question is that LOL?
Kobrick was always carried during Shaq's stay with Lakers and singlehandely ran the most dominant big man ever out of town due to his own insecurities and oversized fragile ego...I remember those days when the feud between the two was main talking point in media. To put it simply, Lakers should have won much more during that period, but due to internal reason failed...
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

In b4 Kobetards change the history.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

The only year that Kobe was possibly the best player was '06. Every other year, it was Shaq, Duncan (pre '06) or LeBron (post '06).

So, no, he wasn't.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

The gap had narrowed by 2003, the culmination of Kobe coming into his peak and Shaq slowly leaving his. But relative to their positions, Shaq always should have been option #1 as long as he was able to be. He had a far greater advantage over the other centers, than Kobe did over all the other great guards/wings at the time.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:13 AM   #14
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

During their years together, I'd probably lean towards Kobe in '03 for a couple of reasons.

1 is that Shaq's "hurt on company time, heal on company time" thing has always been tough to ignore. It doesn't say anything about who was the more effective player on the court, but it factors in what they bring to a team.

2.Despite the amazing numbers(28/11/3, 2.4 bpg, 57 FG%, 60 TS%), Shaq just seemed a bit less dominant than other seasons when he had similar numbers. Part of that is because it was his laziest prime or near prime season defensively, which is less of an issue when comparing him to a perimeter player, but still takes away somewhat from his dominance. The other is that it seems like his baskets were easier that year, that his teammates found him more consistently when he had good post position.

That was also the year when Kobe for a stretch seemed to be the Lakers focal point, that occurred shortly before the 35 and 40 streaks started in late January, iirc, Phil had told Kobe he could have more freedom offensively. They sort of reverted back late in the season, but not entirely, so that was the season where I'm not sure I'd even call Shaq the Lakers 1st option, at least it's questionable taking the entire season into account.

Still, there's no denying Shaq made a huge impact. GMs actually voted him the best player in the league in March of '03, I don't agree with that, but the top 2-5 players that year are so difficult to rank that you could put them in any order.

And Shaq's improved free throw shooting was a plus that year compared to others. Even though he was still at a mediocre 62%, he was dominant in general offensively, that free throws weren't even talked about as a problem for him much that season even at 62%, which combined with his 57 FG% made him easily the most efficient high scorer in the league that season.

And Kobe's season wasn't without it's negatives as well. I've always said that regardless of whether his shoulder injury contributed to his disappointing performance vs the Spurs, it's no longer a valid excuse considering he tried to force things vs the Spurs. If you're not 100% and an injury affects then you shouldn't be trying to take over so much, particularly when you have another dominant player who was considerably more effective at that point.

So it's close, but at the moment I lean towards Kobe. It's close enough that I change my mind on this, which can often be the case when comparing an elite big man to an elite perimeter player. It makes it more difficult to compare their impact.

But 2004? I go with Shaq that season without thinking too hard about it.

Any year prior to '03 was Shaq, imo as I consider him the best player from 2000-2002, and by a clear margin in '00 and '01. Kobe was arguably top 2 in 2001, though. The 2001 Lakers are perhaps the team where the best case can be made that they had the top 2 players in the league weighing heavily how well Kobe played in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
The only year that Kobe was possibly the best player was '06. Every other year, it was Shaq, Duncan (pre '06) or LeBron (post '06).

You're saying that Kobe wasn't even arguably the best player in '07 or '08? Lebron was NOT better than Kobe in '07. And I wouldn't hesitate to take Kobe over Lebron in '08 either.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Was Kobe ever better than Shaq when Shaq was a Laker?

NO

when shaq-kobe were lakers

Shaq 1 reg sea MVP. Kobe ZERO
Shaq 3 FMVPs. Kobe ZERO

Kobe was shaq's sidekick
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