Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2012, 03:32 AM   #1
IamRAMBO24
NBA lottery pick
 
IamRAMBO24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,407
Default Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

1. He has hit his ceiling. This is just a lucky streak. Who knows if he can maintain this level throughout his career.

I don't understand this argument. First, the term "ceiling" has no meaning. Anyone who knows Lin's fulll potential must have a time machine that can travel to the future and back. How can we possibly know he has reached his peak in the last 9 games?

Second, who knows if he can maintain this level of play is a dumb argument. If Lin is capable of putting up 14 assists and 38 points, then he is capable of at a high level. Why don't we just say he is capable of doing that rather than throw in a hogwash hypothetical question of "Is he capable of doing it for the long term?" Well who the f*ck cares? We don't know what the future holds for Lin; what we DO KNOW FOR A FACT is dude is capable of putting up some big numbers against big teams; WHAT WE DO KNOW FOR A FACT is they won 8 out of 9 games.

All these hypotheticals are lame; I can easily say, "Damn Lin is on fire but who knows he might get in a car accident tomorrow so let's not get our hopes up." Let's stick to facts and less horsesh*t please.

2. Lin hasn't proven himself yet.

Prove what? Another hypothetical. Can anyone define what he has to "prove" to be legit? The fact is no one can prove to be legit until they retire and their rings are counted. Kobe has 5 rings and he still has not proven himself, so when someone says Lin hasn't proven himself they are basically saying they are not willing to look at things objectively and assess him based on what he is doing now.

When a player wins 8 out 9 games and plays as good as he does, give him credit for his performance, don't be such a jerk off and say, "Naw those are good numbers but he still hasn't proven himself. WTF do you mean by proven? He's already proven he can kick the Laker's ass. He has proven he can score 38 and dish out 14. He has proven he can lead a team. Those are the facts.

The word "proven" is open ended and can mean a lot of things. When someone says Lin has not proven himself, they can mean he has not won a championship or mvp, and when he has won both, they can change that open ended definition and say he has not won 2 championships, 3, 4, etc. It is not until a star has retired (take Stockton for example) they can be appreciated for what they have accomplished and the word proven is no longer a part of the conversation.

Lin was a nobody; came from the D league, waived by multiple teams, and is now being compared to the best players in the league.

That is a fact. Let's stick to facts rather than hypotheticals and appreciate what he is doing RIGHT NOW.

You see a lot of Kobe and Lebron haters use the same illogical stupid arguments. Don't fall for it and see it for what it is.
IamRAMBO24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:36 AM   #2
Pursuer
Dunking on everybody in the park
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 679
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

So, now we also have Lin stans?
Pursuer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:36 AM   #3
bdreason
Game. Set. Match.
 
bdreason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 25,903
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Wanting a larger sample size is completely logical. Jumping to any concrete conclusion after 9 games is not.


Obviously Lin has game, and will be around for a long time. How about we all just give it some time and see how it plays out.
bdreason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:40 AM   #4
kennethgriffin
NBA Legend
 
kennethgriffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,731
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

lin is a good player. but another good pg like nash, paul, deron, parker could all step in and do the same things with less turnovers

its kind of impossible for a good pg to fail in a system like this with guys around him like he has
kennethgriffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:48 AM   #5
IamRAMBO24
NBA lottery pick
 
IamRAMBO24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,407
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
lin is a good player. but another good pg like nash, paul, deron, parker could all step in and do the same things with less turnovers

its kind of impossible for a good pg to fail in a system like this with guys around him like he has

This is what I mean. Another hypothetical. Has Parker, Nash, Deron ever stepped into the knicks uniform under the same circumstances? No. You don't know. Hell you won't ever know even if we live in alternate realities and you can dictate which player is on which team.

You don't know for a FACT that those guys would succeed in the same role. What you do know for a FACT is that Lin did succeed. He did won 8 out of 9 games and is putting up all star numbers.

Why don't we just say he is a good player based on what he has done so far instead of throwing in some hypothetical bullsh*t like, "Oh if Nash was on the knicks he would of done a lot better."

That sounds like just an excuse to downplay his performance. Even if Nash was in the same role, trust me, there won't be a Nashsensation. Lin is one of a kind dude.
IamRAMBO24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:49 AM   #6
HoopDreams247
I don't get picked last at the park anymore
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 224
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
lin is a good player. but another good pg like nash, paul, deron, parker could all step in and do the same things with less turnovers

its kind of impossible for a good pg to fail in a system like this with guys around him like he has

So a good pg = All-Star (Nash, Paul, Deron, and Parker)?
HoopDreams247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #7
bdreason
Game. Set. Match.
 
bdreason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 25,903
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24

Even if Nash was in the same role, trust me, there won't be a Nashsensation. Lin is one of a kind dude.


We already had two years of 'Nashsensation'... under the same system, same role, same coach. And Nash won two MVP's because of it.
bdreason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:54 AM   #8
Teanett
Great Basketball Mind
 
Teanett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 2nd floor, east of noho
Posts: 4,598
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
its kind of impossible for a good pg to fail in a system like this with guys around him like he has

like bill walker, landry fields, jarred jeffries, iman shumpert, mike bibby?
he's 5-0 without amare.
Teanett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:55 AM   #9
Fiasco
latsis4ever™
 
Fiasco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Free Throw Line
Posts: 4,557
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
We already had two years of 'Nashsensation'... under the same system, same role, same coach. And Nash won two MVP's because of it.

Bingo.
Fiasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 03:58 AM   #10
IamRAMBO24
NBA lottery pick
 
IamRAMBO24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,407
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
We already had two years of 'Nashsensation'... under the same system, same role, same coach. And Nash won two MVP's because of it.

And the fact that no other point guard could do what MVP Nash did until Lin came along should be "proof" that he is a legit star and can rightfully be compared to Nash. I mean he's doing the same thing right? This just proves my point we should look at Lin for what he has done rather than downplay him with "what ifs."

I already think Lebron and Kobe are the greatest players since Jordan but some people still call them "hacks" because of these illogical, stupid "what ifs."

I can't believe some people will say Kobe still hasn't proven himself because he has not beaten Jordan in rings. WTF?
IamRAMBO24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:02 AM   #11
IamRAMBO24
NBA lottery pick
 
IamRAMBO24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,407
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

The guy above me indirectly gave kudos to Lin by saying Deron, Paul, Parker, Nash can do the same thing given the same role. I wonder why he didn't say "JJ Barea" or "Curry" .. he's indirectly saying only the best PROVEN point guards can do what Lin is doing.

Funny thing is he is saying Lin has proven himself by comparing him to these stars with the argument he has not proven himself. Oh the irony.
IamRAMBO24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:06 AM   #12
CavaliersFTW
NBA Legend
 
CavaliersFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 17,285
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuer
So, now we also have Lin stans?

...chalk up another thing he's got in common with Jordan and Kobe
CavaliersFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:10 AM   #13
IamRAMBO24
NBA lottery pick
 
IamRAMBO24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,407
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Here is an article that speaks in high volume about my point ...

"NEW YORK

Now it gets really interesting.

For those still harboring doubts about Jeremy Lin, put them away. He’s the real deal. In helping spearhead another rousing New York Knicks victory Sunday — this time over the defending-champion Dallas Mavericks — the Lin story officially transitioned from novelty act to long-term fact.

The Mavs, winners of six straight, arrived at the Garden as perhaps the hottest team in the NBA (the Miami Heat entered Sunday winners of five in a row and eight of nine). Dallas was playing great defense, extraordinarily deep, powered by a rejuvenated Dirk Nowitzki and ready from the start to let defensive guru Shawn Marion have a go at Lin.

And still the Knicks won, 104-97 — and still because Lin answered time and again. He scored 28 points, dished 14 assists and stole the ball five times. He infused his entire team with his own life story: that of the out-of-nowhere nobody who's suddenly very much a force to be reckoned with.

Like near the end of the third quarter, when the Mavericks had a 12-point lead and looked to be on their way to notching another win and sowing some doubts about the Knicks’ point guard . . . until Lin did what he’s done all along. He willed things to change.

In the final 3:19 of that third quarter, he scored eight points and helped to rob Dallas of its momentum and confidence while cutting its lead to three. In the fourth quarter, Lin had six points and six assists, including enough to Steve Novak that Novak scored all of his 14 points in the final 12 minutes.

As if for effect — as if to say to everyone with his play that he belongs, that he has earned and will continue to earn his sudden and lofty fame — Lin hit a three-pointer over Dirk with 6:51 left in the game. The shot gave New York a nine-point lead and brought the Garden to a deafening roar. The imagery was red meat for the New York masses, their new hero shooting it over one of the all-time greats, a man with a ring. It was the perfect picture of Lin taking on all comers and winning.

It was more mesmerizing, magical stuff, and it should lay to rest the lingering doubts about Lin’s long-term talent. He can play, he is a winner, and he’s probably going to help this Knicks team be formidable. The Knicks may not be championship contenders yet, but they played like it Sunday.

Lin is the reason.

“The thing you can’t teach is what he has inside his heart,” head coach Mike D’Antoni said. “You just can’t teach that. And he has that. His heart is huge.”

So are the questions going forward, which D’Antoni also knows inside his own heart. These questions are the reason this Knicks story is about to go from phenomenon to downright fascinating.

New arrival J.R. Smith hit three of his first four shots — all 3-balls — on his way to a 15-point night, but he’s still a new player finding his way in the Lin show. And D’Antoni said after the game that injured star Carmelo Anthony probably will play Monday against New Jersey.

“We get ’Melo back tomorrow and Baron (Davis) sometime pretty soon, so obviously we’ll be full here pretty soon,” D’Antoni said.

This is where things get interesting — and positively perplexing.

All along, as Lin’s star his risen and brightened, the doubts have grown in equal proportion about ’Melo’s ability to co-exist with him. It’s too early to start manufacturing outrage at Anthony for destroying this special situation before he’s had a single chance to be part of it.

But it’s true, as D’Antoni said, that it’s about to get pretty full on the Knicks’ bench. And it’s not too early to point out these two facts:

1) With Lin, the Knicks are good enough to win eight of nine games and take down a surging and still dangerous Mavericks team.

2) Throwing in Anthony, one of the five best players in the league, along with Smith and Davis (before Lin, expected to handle the point) should make the team better.

Should.

Basketball, as much as any sport, is a strange kind of alchemy. Sometimes what seems great on paper is in fact incredible, a fact to which the Boston Celtics can attest. Sometimes real life takes over and things get harder than you’d expect, a fact to which the Miami Heat and everyone who screamed “72 wins” can also attest.


We’ll soon begin to learn how it will go for New York. Certainly it’s fair to be concerned about ’Melo quickly figuring out how to add to the Knicks’ sudden excellence without disrupting what Lin does. And it is safe to say that Davis, when he came to New York, did not worry about returning from his injury and finding that Jeremy Lin had his job.

“We should be really good,” D’Antoni said. “We have to get there, and it’s easy to say on paper. Our chemistry has to get right, and everybody has to adjust to everybody. So we’ll see. That might not be perfect the first week, but the potential’s there.

“It’s our job as coaches and their job as players to maximize that potential,” he said. “We got a lot of players, so some guys might not play at the end of the game, and somebody might have 10 minutes and somebody may have 30 and just kind of go with the feel. And I’ll mess it up sometimes and play a player (when) I should have played somebody else. But as long as everybody buys in and the most important thing is winning and getting us to our maximum potential, it’s going to be fun.”

That’s a mouthful, and it’s honest, and both are for good reason. D’Antoni knows it’s going to be hard. He sounds like he doesn’t himself know quite how to work his rotation or manage these egos, and how could he? It’s not entirely clear Erik Spoelstra figured those things out in Miami at any point last season.

And D’Antoni sounds, to me, as if he’s asking everyone on his team to look at the big picture — at the fact, if they all do indeed get on board, that the Knicks could be a lot more than just a playoff team.

Jeremy Lin is for real. Now it’s time to find out, once you throw ’Melo into the mix, whether the Knicks are, too.
IamRAMBO24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:46 AM   #14
Yanch856
Serious playground baller
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 347
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

I don't know why everyone compares Lin to Nash just cos it's the D'Antoni system.

I see him more like a Tony Parker, with greater floor vision and game control. But the way he can will his teams to win at all cost - man his competitiveness is like Jordan hahahaha. I hope this is why he gets all these late game antics, and drama.

Eg. When Fisher gets a jumper on him. He goes back to stick one against fisher, and then spin move Fisher to death.

And last night when Terry fires a three. He goes down the other end and drills one right in his face. Then drilling a three in Dirk's face hahaha. Then making the game winning steal and lob to JR. I just love that fieriness, that mean streak. Like, iso'ing Gasol out to drill a three in his face. Calling iso on Barnes to get round him for reverse layup. Calling Iso on Calderon. I don't think even Kobe this nastiness at the moment. Lin is out of his mind right now.
Yanch856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 05:51 AM   #15
Shepseskaf
Old School
 
Shepseskaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Caribbean
Posts: 4,780
Default Re: Wow There are some dumb aguments against Lin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuer
So, now we also have Lin stans?
Um, have you been reading ISH for the last week and a half?

As long as some objectivity is maintained, count me Lin as well. What the kid is doing is nothing short of amazing.

As the OP says, the excuses for not giving him his props are getting less and less credible.
Shepseskaf is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:06 AM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy