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Old 02-21-2012, 11:29 PM   #61
RidonKs
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

half the teams in here would have severe spacing problems, gotta mix it up with shooters and primary offensive threats, no need to have a first option slasher at every position. payton, mj, lebron? ehhh

lol @ the bulls homer calling bird, magic, and russell "liabilities" in any regard

gimme jordan and stockton in the back court, totally unselfish pg who can fill any role you need from him, among the headiest to ever play the game. and, uhh, mike. defensively, it's not a jordan/payton combo but the passing lanes would be made very dangerous.

at the sf slot... gotta be bird i guess. nobody else pops out. he can shoot and lol @ his being a liability in any regard by any stretch of the imagination. just because he isn't godly at the defensive end of the floor, doesn't mean he couldn't man up when he had to. plus he's got back up, in the form of....

my pf has to be kg. another guy who prefers to be selfless, creates havoc on defense with his length, can defend the rim, and most importantly, has that knock down 18 footer to go with his face up game if we need him to score for us.... timmy was close but it was perimeter shooting that gave kg the edge. i also debated going with dirk here but garnett's too good defensively and on the boards to pass up.

and he'd be twinned with... tough call between shaq and dream but i'm going with versatility and personality here. less clashing egos with hakeem on the floor and he's still got crazy defensive presence.

6th man goes to magic, just because of his ability to play multiple positions since we only have one guy off the bench. also another unselfish perfectly compatible personality.




John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon

Magic Johnson



this is among the best passing squads you could possibly put together. ball movement and off ball movement will be a blur. defensively, man for man, you could probably argue that it's weaker than if i had, say, payton or pippen replacing stock or bird, but you've got to prioritize. with KG and Hakeem defending the rim, you could have roger mason defending the point and not suffer too much. and neither stockton or bird equate to roger mason. they're more than good enough defensively with those bigs.

offense would flat out flow, and with Magic in the game, it'd turn run and gun in a second. everybody can pass, but more importantly, everybody's willing to pass. everybody is also a threat from just about anywhere.

and with the game on the line, no question whose hands to put the ball into. if you've got MJ, you don't need anybody else who can take over... though if you have to include somebody else with that mentality, Bird is your man.

lastly, chemistry wise, nobody is disruptive on this team. they all fit together like clockwork. personalities and games mesh beautifully.

i win (in my humble opinion of course)

Last edited by RidonKs : 02-21-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #62
Round Mound
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

C: Wilt
PF: Barkley
SF: Bird
SG: Jordan
PG: Magic

6thman: Hakeem

Last edited by Round Mound : 12-28-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #63
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

There is no other player that could absolutely dominate in EVERY area (alright, he was not a good FT shooter, BUT, he DREW a TON of fouls), than Chamberlain. A mid-60's Wilt was the greatest all-around center of all-time, and yes, it is still not even close.

In his 65-66 season, he not only averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 (in a league that shot .433), he was CRUSHING his opposing centers. He BLEW AWAY Thurmond, Russell, and Bellamy in H2H's, and I mean BLEW them AWAY. Incidently find me another player who LED the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG% at the SAME TIME in the SAME SEASON (only Chamberlain achieved that feat, and he did it THREE times.)

And in his 66-67 season, he "only" averaged 24.1 ppg, but he had several 40+ point games, with an NBA high of 58 (on 26-34 shooting.) Once again, when he was asked to score, he even pounded Thurmond (In an early season encounter, he had only scored six points in the first half. His coach asked him to take it to Nate in the 2nd half, and he responded with 24 second half points.) He also shot a mind-numbing .683 from the field (in a league that shot .441.) He was way ahead of the next guy in rebounding at 24.2 rpg. And, he handed out 7.8 apg. And those that saw him play at around that time would claim he was on par with Russell defensively.

And in the playoffs, he MURDERED both Russell and Thurmond, too. Not only that, but overall, in that post-season, he averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, and shot .579 (while holding Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond to .427, .358, and .343 shooting.)

In his 67-68 season, he had one of the greatest Defensive Win Share seasons in NBA history (7th greatest all-time, and only Russell had higher seasons.) And while he "only averaged 24.3 ppg) he hung games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 on the league. He ran away with the rebounding title (by nearly FIVE per game.) He shot .595 (in a league that shot .446.) AND, he LED the NBA in ASSISTS. BTW, find me another player who LED the NBA in rebounding, FG%, and assists at the SAME TIME in the SAME SEASON.

And here was an interesting stat-line from one of Chamberlain's games in that 67-68 season. He scored 53 points, on 24-29 shooting, with 32 rebounds, 14 assists, and 7 blocks. In another game that season, he put up a 68 point, 37 rebound game. In yet another game that year, he put up the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.)


In any case, he could do it ALL. Incidently, Rick Barry, who won the scoring title in that '67 season, at 35.6 ppg, "thanked" Wilt for letting him win the scoring crown. Virtually everyone in the league knew that had Wilt wanted to, he would have easily won yet another scoring title. And at his peak, he just overwhelmed his opposing centers in rebounding and FG%.

BTW, in his 65-66, 66-67, and 67-68 seasons, Wilt led his team's to the BEST record in the league (55-25, 68-13, and 62-20.)

Here again, how many other all-time greats were asked to change their games as much as Wilt (and yet he excelled in ANY role)? The FACT was, Wilt could BLEND in with ANY roster, and assume ANY role. So, if you needed your center to completely shut down the lane, and another high-scoring center; or absolutely own the glass; or hand out 10+ assists; or pour in a 50-60 point game, and on phenomenal effciency; or ALL of them at the SAME TIME...name me a better center to hand that task to, than a mid-60's Chamberlain.

Last edited by jlauber : 02-22-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:02 AM   #64
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by oolalaa
The one thing you don't have is outside shooting. You have 3 wing players that will primarily be looking to drive to the hoop. That could be a problem if your opposition decides to clog the lane.
Your right about the lack of outside shooting, but I think they're good enough. There's always a trade-off. Most great shooters aren't great at penetrating or defense. I think james and pippens jumpshots are decent enough to be respected.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:26 AM   #65
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by oolalaa
That's a good team (mine would best yours though ) but what versions of your picks would you choose? e.g '62 or '67 Wilt? '65 or '69 West? etc

Wilt Chamberlain 66-68
Jerry West 68-70
Kareem 71-74
Bird 84-87
Jordan 89-91

Magic ........... 1981-84

Sorry but Timmy Dunkin is not stopping Kareem. Stopping / slowing down O'Neil is not the same thing as trying to battle the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was facing Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier.

And nobody is stopping Chamberlain & nor are they getting by him (in fact you know who is reminding me a little of Chamberlain on defense this season in terms of being able to time his blocks is Serge)....

those other guys you got will have to either shadow box, or else put up a mirror on the court i dunno
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:37 AM   #66
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

C- Hakeem
PF- Garnett
SF- Bird
SG- Jordan
PG- Magic

6th Man- Lebron
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:32 AM   #67
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
half the teams in here would have severe spacing problems, gotta mix it up with shooters and primary offensive threats, no need to have a first option slasher at every position. payton, mj, lebron? ehhh

lol @ the bulls homer calling bird, magic, and russell "liabilities" in any regard

gimme jordan and stockton in the back court, totally unselfish pg who can fill any role you need from him, among the headiest to ever play the game. and, uhh, mike. defensively, it's not a jordan/payton combo but the passing lanes would be made very dangerous.

at the sf slot... gotta be bird i guess. nobody else pops out. he can shoot and lol @ his being a liability in any regard by any stretch of the imagination. just because he isn't godly at the defensive end of the floor, doesn't mean he couldn't man up when he had to. plus he's got back up, in the form of....

my pf has to be kg. another guy who prefers to be selfless, creates havoc on defense with his length, can defend the rim, and most importantly, has that knock down 18 footer to go with his face up game if we need him to score for us.... timmy was close but it was perimeter shooting that gave kg the edge. i also debated going with dirk here but garnett's too good defensively and on the boards to pass up.

and he'd be twinned with... tough call between shaq and dream but i'm going with versatility and personality here. less clashing egos with hakeem on the floor and he's still got crazy defensive presence.

6th man goes to magic, just because of his ability to play multiple positions since we only have one guy off the bench. also another unselfish perfectly compatible personality.




John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon

Magic Johnson



this is among the best passing squads you could possibly put together. ball movement and off ball movement will be a blur. defensively, man for man, you could probably argue that it's weaker than if i had, say, payton or pippen replacing stock or bird, but you've got to prioritize. with KG and Hakeem defending the rim, you could have roger mason defending the point and not suffer too much. and neither stockton or bird equate to roger mason. they're more than good enough defensively with those bigs.

offense would flat out flow, and with Magic in the game, it'd turn run and gun in a second. everybody can pass, but more importantly, everybody's willing to pass. everybody is also a threat from just about anywhere.

and with the game on the line, no question whose hands to put the ball into. if you've got MJ, you don't need anybody else who can take over... though if you have to include somebody else with that mentality, Bird is your man.

lastly, chemistry wise, nobody is disruptive on this team. they all fit together like clockwork. personalities and games mesh beautifully.

i win (in my humble opinion of course)
Theres no way your squad could beat mine. Magic and bird would have a hard time staying in front of their man, and birds shooting would be negated cuz with jordan, pippen, and james, they would just switch everything. And don't forget the players switching are three of the best defenders ever. And how are they gonna run? Jordan can't be everywhere. And with stockton and bird, you lose athleticism.

As far as offense, magic and bird would get exposed. They were fortunate in that they were able to be hidden by playing the weaker guard (in magics case) or forward (in birds case) there would be no such luxery going against my team. And who's stockton gonna defend? He'd be giving away abpout 6-8 inches to my guards. I see a post opportunity. And while my team may not be as great passing as yours, they're still very good and willing passers.

My team would also have the rebounding and size advantage
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:00 AM   #68
jlauber
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
Wilt Chamberlain 66-68
Jerry West 68-70
Kareem 71-74
Bird 84-87
Jordan 89-91

Magic ........... 1981-84

Sorry but Timmy Dunkin is not stopping Kareem. Stopping / slowing down O'Neil is not the same thing as trying to battle the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was facing Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier.

And nobody is stopping Chamberlain & nor are they getting by him (in fact you know who is reminding me a little of Chamberlain on defense this season in terms of being able to time his blocks is Serge)....

those other guys you got will have to either shadow box, or else put up a mirror on the court i dunno

100% agreed. IMHO, you could use Magic from '81 (even late '80) thru '88, but I agree that those early years were much better than even he was given credit for. Of course, he proved how great he was in the '80 and '82 Finals in those years.

And I definitely agree with you about Kareem. He was at his most dominant point in his career in those '71 thru '74 seasons. In fact, he DECLINED after that. I get a kick out of those that somehow try to convince us that he was at his peak in his 76-77 season, based SOLELY on his playoff run. That post-season run involved a TOTAL of ELEVEN games, seven of which were against the Warriors. I either saw or listened to every one of his Blazer games, and in only ONE was he better player than Walton. Walton made every key play down the stretch in the other three games, and dominated those games in virtually every area. His outlet passing, his key rebounding, and his clutch shooting and DEFENSE against Kareem won that series.

Of course, Kareem was a great player. No one whould argue that. Overall, he was the best player in the decade of the 70's, but after his dominating second season, when he shredded the NBA, I think he leveled off, perhaps believing all of the hype,...that he would lead the Bucks to a "Celtic-type" Dynasty. There was no question that, when motivated, he was unstoppable. But almost anyone that was around in the 70's would agree with his legendary role in "Airplane", in which he was criticized for lack of effort.

Once again, if anyone really needed any evidence to support the above, just compare his 71-72 and 75-76 seasons. In his 71-72 season, he played 44.2 mpg, on a team that went 63-19 and had a +11.1 differential. He averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shot .574 that season. Then, after being traded to the Lakers before the start of the 75-76 season, and playing with an average, at best roster, he could only go 41.2 mpg, and while he won his only rebounding title in that season (barely edging 6-9 Cowens), he could only average 27.7 ppg, and on a .529 FG%, which was among his worst of the decade. Here again, how come he could seemingly score at will in his 71-72 season, as well as his 70-71 season, when he played 40.1 mpg, and averaged 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, and shot .577...which was his career high differential against the league of .128), and doing so on teams that went 63-19 and 66-16, and that had differentials of +11.1 and +12.2 ppg...and yet, on a relatively poor team, that desperately needed him to step up, he shrunk.

And, once again, Bob McAdoo had no problem scoring in that 75-76 season, averaging 31.1 ppg (as well as 34.5 ppg the year before, and in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg.)

And, while some here put that 76-77 on some kind of mythical pedestal, based on an 11 game run in the playoffs, his 53-29 team barely edged a near .500 Warrior team, and was SWEPT by a 49-33 Blazer team with a Walton at his absolute best.

The rest of the '70's, Kareem played well, but was nowhere near as dominant as he had been in the early 70's. He played with stacked rosters in both 77-78 and 78-79, and not only did those teams under-perform, with records of 45-37 and 47-35...they were routed by Sonic's teams that were marginally better (47-35 and 52-30), and with ONE borderline HOF player (Dennis Johnson.) How does a team with Jamaal Wilkes, who won a title with Rick Barry and a bunch of no-names in '75, Lou Hudson, Norm Nixon, and even an Adrian Dantley (who was averaging 26.5 ppg when LA acquired him), and Kareem not even make a DENT in the post-season, and in two straight seasons?

I have long maintained that had Magic not arrived in the 79-80 (and IMMEDIATELY made LA a 60-22 champion), Kareem would have retired sometime in the mid-80's, as a relative disappointment.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #69
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

one of the guys asked about this very subject last night on a different thread, so, I was hoping y'all had some ideas on the question of who gets the starting job on the All-Time team....
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:04 PM   #70
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

I have a different approach to this than most people. I don't have an all-time team, I have all-time teams. Each built around a Top 10 player with complementary players and a particular style of play. That way everyone can play the way they're actually accustomed to playing, and no one gets left off because everyone has his own team. I can pick a Top 10 GOAT player and he has his own custom-built team. That way it eliminates any "he had crappy teammates" talk, and puts everyone on equal footing.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #71
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Shaquille OŽneal.
Kevin Garnett.
Lebron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Dwyane Wade.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #72
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Mine
C-Hakeem
PF-Garnett
SF-Lebron
SG-Jordan
PG-Payton

Lockdown nobody moves

holding teams to the scoring average of your worst offensive option
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #73
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMan
holding teams to the scoring average of your worst offensive option

yeah and not only that but he later on chose Dennis Rodman as his 6th man talk about some defensive prowess when that team walks on the floor !
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #74
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

Assuming the point is to win the game.


PG: Stockton
SG: Jordan
SF: Bird
PF: KG
C: Hakeem

6th man: LeBron James


Stockton isn't the best PG of all-time, but I want him running a team of superstars over Magic or Isiah. Jordan is a no-brainer. Bird is a perfect fit with superstar players because of his insane bball IQ. KG and Hakeem are there for defense, and their ability to score from inside and outside the paint. I don't see anyone in the history of the game beating this team in a 7 game series. Too much offense, too much defense, and too much bball IQ.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #75
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Default Re: All-Time Starting team + 6th Man

pg: Magic
sg: Kobe
sf: Pippen
pf: Duncan
c: Hakeem

6th man: Reggie Miller
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