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Old 02-22-2012, 08:08 PM   #31
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist
Don't know, but he went 27-11 without Pippen to start the 98 season. 97 Jordan was a beast. Here's a scouting report that I was told the Knicks had on him before their 96 playoff matchup.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/4r28b4.jpg

Jordan was relentless. He would have put so much pressure on opposing defenses. And he would have two talented 7 footers to get easy baskets and rebounds in a league lacking in 7 footers.

Again, he went 27-11 without Pippen and his only "7 footer" being jump shooting Bill Wennington.


That scouting report
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist

That's pretty much saying "We are doomed!"
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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That scouting report

Nice avy
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

The same thing that always happened to Jordan before Pippen got to Chicago.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by eliteballer
97 Jordan has played like literally half the minutes current Kobe has, and in 97 the 3 point line was short. Now that Kobe's wrist is healed we'll see him take it to another level.

moronic comment.

how can they get worse with MJ. specially MJ is much better passer than Kobe from inside the post & with back to the basket. MJ also played better defense in 1997.

with MJ gasol's & bynums stats will look better. easily.

He made a decent player out of garbage talentless Luc longly
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by -23-
That scouting report

MJ was unstoppable. The scouting report said "Be physical with him at all times". Guess what? Couldn't do that today.

Look at the first half of 1996 ECF Knicks vs Bulls Game 1

In the first half of Game 1, NY puts Mason on MJ to start the game hoping Mason could keep MJ out of the post. So MJ comes out and nails two open jump shots. NY immediately replaces Mason with Derek Harper. Once MJ gets a good rhythm out there, it's very hard for the defender to *not* leave his feet to contest the shot. The SR said he shot 51% on open jump shots. So...do you stay down and give him a shot he's going to hit 51% of the time or do you contest the shot and break the "don't leave your feet" rule? There are multiple instances where Harper goes for the fake and gets burned but I don't blame him.

The SR said to push him to his right shoulder when he's posting up. Harper did just that (with MJ on the right block) near the end of the half, but John Starks was coming down from the key to double him on his left side. MJ turned toward his right shoulder (check) but away from the potential double team and found a way to score. What do you do here? Can't blame Harper here.

I now know why so many of MJ's defenders had such a hard time on the offensive end. How can you score when you have so much stuff rattling in your head on the defensive end? I was overwhelmed just watching it. Can't imagine being Derek Harper going against MJ in a seven game series.

Not only is he such a terror offensively, but he was excellent moving without the ball and great at getting steals and turning them into easy baskets. Even if you do everything right, he could score 20 just from those 2 things. You literally could not relax at all. Very few bailout shots. You had to think and react on every play or MJ was going to score. And even if you did everything right, he was probably still going to score.

I remember after either the 89 or 90 ECF's, the Pistons were celebrating in their locker room after defeating the Bulls, I saw Dumars sitting alone on the bench. While Isiah and Bill Laimbeer are giving interviews, he's sitting with his head in his hands and blowing out huge breaths. He was totally exhausted. He looked like he wrestled a bear 6 or 7 times and got out alive. I can only imagine the small details he had to keep in his head to make MJ work during those series.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by rodman91
I'm pretty sure his teammates would play better and Lakers would be top teams in NBA.

If i remember correctly, Jordan started season without Pippen, Rodman was playing poor so Jackson started Jason Caffey in starting line up.

Jordan,Harper,Longley,Kukoc,Caffey/Rodman won 24-11 before Pippen came back.

And they started like 8-7.. after early struggle it makes 16-4. He was 35 years old with index finger injury at that time.

Dont tell me Harper,Longley,Kukoc & Caffey were much better than Gasol,Bynum,Fisher,Artest.

I went back to check. The Bulls started off 24-11 before Pippen came back. After his return, he missed 2 games with the flu and another one for some other reason**. The Bulls were 2-1 in those games.

Win at ATL March 27
Win at MIL March 29
Loss at DET April 15

**Phil Jackson's words -- "Scottie won't be here tonight. He's under the weather. He didn't have a good rest the other night. He's had some problems. We're calling it the flu. And we'll let it rest at that. And, uh...he'll hopefully fly to Philadelphia tomorrow and we'll see him with the team. On Thursday and Friday he'll be ready to play."

Last edited by Da_Realist : 02-25-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist
I went back to check. The Bulls started off 24-11 before Pippen came back. After his return, he missed 2 games with the flu and another one for some other reason**. The Bulls were 2-1 in those games.

Win at ATL March 27
Win at MIL March 29
Loss at DET April 15

**Phil Jackson's words -- "Scottie won't be here tonight. He's under the weather. He didn't have a good rest the other night. He's had some problems. We're calling it the flu. And we'll let it rest at that. And, uh...he'll hopefully fly to Philadelphia tomorrow and we'll see him with the team. On Thursday and Friday he'll be ready to play."
MJ HAD a broken knuckle that season at 35 too.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Rnbizzle
I actually think they get worse. The worst thing about the Lakers right now is, they can't hit any outside shots, which is one of the few things Kobe is clearly better at than Jordan. The other differences in their games are too small to actually make a change overall.

Kobe is shooting like less then 30% from 3 this year. He's clearly declined in that aspect. There would probably be minimal difference there. Jordan would attack the basket more and take better shots, get to the line more, and he was clearly a better defender at that time then Kobe is now.

Lakers are not as bad as people are saying and the West is pretty open cause there's not a clear cut favorite. I'd honestly say they'd get to the Finals. From 88-93, Jordan was at his best cause of his IQ, Skillset, and athleticism. But from 96-98, he lost alot of athleticism but he was a better leader, and seemed to be more determined and stronger willed then ever before. I can't see a Jordan led team that has championship experience losing to young teams like the Thunder or Clippers so I say they make the Finals. And if they make the Finals its either against the Bulls or Heat. Bulls are young just like the Thunder and Clippers so I'd say they win there. If they face the Heat, they lose if the Heat play normal, and win if Lebron has one of his meltdowns which there's probably like a 50/50 chance of that.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #40
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by guy
Kobe is shooting like less then 30% from 3 this year. He's clearly declined in that aspect. There would probably be minimal difference there. Jordan would attack the basket more and take better shots, get to the line more, and he was clearly a better defender at that time then Kobe is now.

Lakers are not as bad as people are saying and the West is pretty open cause there's not a clear cut favorite. I'd honestly say they'd get to the Finals. From 88-93, Jordan was at his best cause of his IQ, Skillset, and athleticism. But from 96-98, he lost alot of athleticism but he was a better leader, and seemed to be more determined and stronger willed then ever before. I can't see a Jordan led team that has championship experience losing to young teams like the Thunder or Clippers so I say they make the Finals. And if they make the Finals its either against the Bulls or Heat. Bulls are young just like the Thunder and Clippers so I'd say they win there. If they face the Heat, they lose if the Heat play normal, and win if Lebron has one of his meltdowns which there's probably like a 50/50 chance of that.

I agree with everything here except... The Lakers wouldn't lose to the Heat if MJ was playing next to two quality big men like Bynum and Gasol. Lebron may end up being the best player on the floor (and even that's a maybe cause 97 Jordan was a beast that knew all the tricks...tricks that Lebron hasn't learned yet) but I seriously doubt Jordan backed by Bynum and Gasol would lose against Miami. (Miami has no one but Bosh and an undersized Haslem)

MJ would have those guys playing hard every game. Can you imagine those guys running after every loose ball and fighting to get every rebound? His expectations would be too high to have them loafing up and down the court like they do. MJ + motivated Gasol + motivated Bynum destroy the league. Every other Lakers player would get easy shots cause teams don't have enough personnel to worry about them.

Last edited by Da_Realist : 02-25-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Rnbizzle
I actually think they get worse. The worst thing about the Lakers right now is, they can't hit any outside shots, which is one of the few things Kobe is clearly better at than Jordan. The other differences in their games are too small to actually make a change overall.

in 1997 MJ barely take Jumpshot. FG% .486 3P% .374 better than Kobe right now and he score more. It's all about how many you score & efficiency, how you score doesn't matter.

Last edited by thelucifer69 : 02-25-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

The difference between Kobe and MJ

You have to surround Kobe with the perfect team for him to win. Jordan made flawed teams seem perfect.

This is where the disconnect is. It's not just Jordan. All the greatest leaders do this. The Man is supposed to be the difference between flawed and seemingly perfect. Kobe fans are clamoring for a bench, a point guard (preferably an All Star, at that) and would love to upgrade from Bynum to Dwight Howard. Well, no sh*t Kobe may win that way. But that's also why Kobe will never get the credit they want him to get.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by juju151111
MJ HAD a broken knuckle that season at 35 too.

Plus, the goal wasn't to win as many games as possible. The goal was to stay sharp during the first part of the season so that they peak later in the year after Pippen returned. The 98 Bulls were a veteran team and two-time defending champions. Regular season wins weren't the ultimate goal. They just needed to do well enough.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:00 PM   #44
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist
The difference between Kobe and MJ

You have to surround Kobe with the perfect team for him to win. Jordan made flawed teams seem perfect.

This is where the disconnect is. It's not just Jordan. All the greatest leaders do this. The Man is supposed to be the difference between flawed and seemingly perfect. Kobe fans are clamoring for a bench, a point guard (preferably an All Star, at that) and would love to upgrade from Bynum to Dwight Howard. Well, no sh*t Kobe may win that way. But that's also why Kobe will never get the credit they want him to get.

This.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:05 PM   #45
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Default Re: '97 Jordan with the 2012 Lakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Realist
The difference between Kobe and MJ

You have to surround Kobe with the perfect team for him to win. Jordan made flawed teams seem perfect.

This is where the disconnect is. It's not just Jordan. All the greatest leaders do this. The Man is supposed to be the difference between flawed and seemingly perfect. Kobe fans are clamoring for a bench, a point guard (preferably an All Star, at that) and would love to upgrade from Bynum to Dwight Howard. Well, no sh*t Kobe may win that way. But that's also why Kobe will never get the credit they want him to get.

So I guess we're gonna just ignore Kobe's 09 and 10 title runs.
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