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Old 02-28-2012, 01:36 AM   #226
CavaliersFTW
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuC
I can tell you're a moron.

You're, not YOUR. If you plan on calling someone an idiot learn the difference.


Thanks you sure showed me! Almighty spell checker!
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:39 AM   #227
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
I know damn well about camera distortion and perspective in photography is a hobby of mine. I'll ask again. Are you going to sit here and say "I can not deduce whether or not Wilt's vertical was two feet or not because I don't trust the angle"!?

Get real. The distortion is NOT that extreme.



Oh, so now photography is a hobby yet you're trying to narrow down to the inch how high someone jumped based on off angle pictures pointing UP at the rim. You might want to consider a new hobby if that's the case.

Matter of fact, you can save the NBA a lot of money with your precise skill. They can get rid of the vertec measurement tools they have and just take pictures of guys jumping and have you tell what everyone's vertical is @ the combine.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:41 AM   #228
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuC
Oh, so now photography is a hobby yet you're trying to narrow down to the inch how high someone jumped based on off angle pictures pointing UP at the rim. You might want to consider a new hobby if that's the case.

Matter of fact, you can save the NBA a lot of money with your precise skill. They can get rid of the vertec measurement tools they have and just take pictures of guys jumping and have you tell what everyone's vertical is @ the combine.



Show me my post where I attempt to narrow down his vertical by the inch via the rim. Show me. Shut up and stop Assuming you know what I posted or why I posted and read the thread before you jump in all hot n bothered
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:45 AM   #229
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW


Show me my post where I attempt to narrow down his vertical by the inch via the rim. Show me. Shut up and stop Assuming you know what I posted or why I posted and read the thread before you jump in all hot n bothered


Short term memory?



Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
40" - yes

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...&postcount=202


How high would you say this Masai warriors vertical is oh wise sage of jumping:

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Old 02-28-2012, 01:52 AM   #230
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuC
Short term memory?





http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...&postcount=202


How high would you say this Masai warriors vertical is oh wise sage of jumping:


No frame of reference.

Not the same at all. Thanks for trying. Everyone knows how high a 10 foot basket is. I never used it to peg Wilt's vertical based on it as you accuse - but it was pretty f_cking obvious he was higher than 2 feet. Your literally visually/spatially inept if you can't figure that much out.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:57 AM   #231
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
No frame of reference. Thanks for trying. Everyone knows how high a 10 foot basket is. I never claimed to peg Wilt's vertical based on it - but it was pretty f_cking obvious he was higher than 2 feet. Your literally visually/spatially inept if you can't figure that much out.




Where have I said anything about Wilt's vert other than the pictures you were posting are impossible to tell if he's rim level.


I will point out that you said his vert was 40" which is a joke, considering that would mean his head would be 5" above the rim, putting his nose/mouth at rim level
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:00 AM   #232
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuC
Where have I said anything about Wilt's vert other than the pictures you were posting are impossible to tell if he's rim level.


I will point out that you said his vert was 40" which is a joke, considering that would mean his head would be 5" above the rim, putting his nose/mouth at rim level

Based on this dumbass. Not based pictures of him playing basketball.

Quote:
For those speculating Wilt's Vertical - who care to read it -

For some perspective, all athletes are different:

Stefan Holm:
Weight:143.3lbs
standing vertical leap: 59cm=23 inches
*maximum vertical leap: 128cm=50.4 inches
1433 lbs of peak force released upon max-vert (10x his body weight)

*Note, Stefan vaults hard off of one leg at high speed due to his unique physiology. The physics behind his technique to jump are entirely different than the physics behind typical jumping athletes - hence the wide rift between his standing and "max" vertical. His max vertical was determined by way of his ability to "scissor" 2.10 meters and his known inseam.
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/vie...314/P30/#59237
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhF1c4InaMo
Holm's differential is actually a very uncommon characteristic, most athletes have a much narrower gap between running or standing vertical take off.

Take for example:
Nick Young:
standing vertical: 39.5"
running vertical: 40.5"

www.draftexpress.com/measurements
Nick Young's standing vertical is very impressive and so his running. He jumps 2.5% higher with a running start. Compare to Holm's, who's running vertical is a whopping 119% higher than his standing vertical.
Individuals all have slightly different skeletal indexes (ratios of how long bone A is in comparison with adjacent bone B) and variations of how dense/long/firm/soft our muscles and tendons are. Take a look at the link under Holm's info to get the scientific reason's why he, in particular, is actually an incredibly bizarre specimen in the world of jumping - nobody else jumps with the method he uses. He he doesn't jump per-say... he tenses his body and "vaults" to achieve elevation.

Now onto big man leapers:

In 1993
Shaq O'Neal
Weight: 303lbs
Max Vertical: 36"

www.draftexpress.com

In 2008
Dwight Howard:
Weight: 240lbs
Standing Vertical: 30.5"
Max Vertical: 35.5"

www.draftexpress.com

2009 Shaq O'neal
Weight: 350lbs
Max Vertical: (unmeasured)
Standing Vertical: 26" (11'7 - 9'5" standing reach)

http://www.slamonline.com/online/blo...links-shaq-vs/
www.draftexpress.com

In 2011
Dwight Howard:
Weight 280lbs
Standing Vertical: (untested)
Max Vertical 39.5"

1,210lbs of peak force (4.3 times his body weight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Wiq-POmFA
Dwight, more traditionally, pushes with with both legs at ~low speed to achieve his "maximum" vertical. Entirely different technique, and physic's behind his jump. Dwight relied on pushing up with both of his leg muscles from a crouched position.

Now time travel to 1956-57:

Wilt Chamberlain:
Weight: 240lbs
Standing Vertical: ~38"
Max Vertical: ~40"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs&t=53s
PR 6'6.75" (Other known KU jumps: 6'5, 6'6, 6'6.25)

First take note of his weight at the time he competed in HJ.... than go back and take note of Shaq and Dwight's weight. Anyone want to sit here and pretend 240lbs isn't possible to go higher than 303lb Shaq or 280lb Dwight?

Now. Just as with Holm's scissor jump, all I need to do is see how high Wilt's hips or COG (Center Of Gravity) rises in order to complete the Jump.... IT LITERALLY IS THAT SIMPLE. I can do this in this situation especially, because this is pre-fosbury flop method (Fosbury flop is the head first belly up HJ technique).

In the fosbury flop your center of gravity actually shifts away from your hips and into your upper body in mid air. So it is too difficult to judge the same way. But anyways in a roll the COG, and in a scissor the inseam, both stay in 1 place on the athlete and only rise vertical. Btw, the shifting of the COG in the fosbury flop is why the HJ records blew up by nearly 1 foot after the its' development. So nobody should directly compare jump numbers to anyone crossing high-jump eras.

So anyways it boils down to this:

The center-of-gravity (COG) of Wilt during a Western Roll is his upper pelvis at ~3.975'

When performing his "6'6" jump at the KU Relay's, that COG reference point of his pelvis was no longer 3.975' in the air. It rose to exactly 7'275' in the air. This is on that specific jump (and what are the odds that's his highest he'd ever risen!?)

You may be wondering "why didn't he have a 7'275" High Jump?" Well, first off lower that # a few inches to account for the depth of his body (The COG is interior above the pelvis). Wilt's coach actually predicted he could be among the first athletes ever to hit the 7 foot mark if he worked at it. And just above the ~7'0 range is actually exactly where his center of gravity SHOULD be for his coach to even suggest that. A 7.275' (7' 3.3") COG means if he positions his body just right, with great form he could be clearing 6'10-6'11 with that identical vertical shown in the footage of his 6'6 jump.

The reason Wilt didn't clear a bar any higher than 6'6.75" (his PR) is due to terrible form. He does the Western Roll. But he butchers it with an out of control trail leg. Every time he faults in his jumps on film its because of his mile-long legs that almost had a mind of their own. His vertical was not holding him back, you can clearly see his pelvis soar well above the bar - he had crazy body clearance compared to the other athletes competing in the HJ event. He should very well be pulling 4 to 6 additional inches on his jumps just go back to the footage and watch it over and over and over and over in slow motion and you'll know exactly what I mean. It's undeniable that his hips go well above the bar.
http://www2.ljworld.com/videos/2008/apr/16/18112/
Watch "Bud Smith" jumping with him for comparison. Look how efficient Bud is by using precise form to swing his leg over and clear the same heights Wilt clears.

Does anyone agree/see how you can project Wilt's maximum vertical by simply contrasting the elevation difference of his COG from standing position to the apex of his HJ leap? It's that simple. And does anyone see how at 240lbs, he is by no means breaking any laws of physics or limits of human physiology? (Dwight @ 280lbs, 39.5?!?) (O'Neal 303, 36"!?)

For his standing vertical - have a look at the following image:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=40637

Same KU Relays. Same bar. This image appears to be his standing vertical does anyone disagree? (2 leg jump straight up vs his 3-step 1 leg Western-Roll HJ style). His 38" "inseam" (see link above for verification) is ~bar level. From a standstill, His hips have to rise ~38" to do that next to a 6'5-6'6" HJ bar. No way around it. Jumping straight is not how anyone will achieve a max-vert - but this does indicate he's the kind of person with a very similar standing vert to his max-vert a-la Nick Young.

The Jump's he does in Track, on film display absolutely nothing less than 40 inches of vertical elevation. To anyone without a ridiculously bias brain, geared to sell him short, this should only be entirely expected for a 2 time NCAA High-Jump Champion that got by on poor form. No it isn't 50". But:

30-36" max-verticals absolutely will not get you past High School in the discipline of High-Jumping. Period. Put the underrated #'s to rest already
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:00 AM   #233
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

When i did track in high school, i did long jump and high jump....i'm about 5'10" track shoes, and i cleared 6'0 on my best jump...i went backward and couldn't bend for shit....The top of my waist (point of reference) is 39"....I would have to jump 6'6" just to clear my ass over the bar, giving a rough vertical of around 37-39"...( I could touch 11-12"above the rim). Now Wilt was doing 6'6" with a proven CRAPPIER style of jumping. I guarantee he was clearing closer to 6'10" to 7feet with that style...watching the videos, he clears the bar pretty easily, but gets screwed with his drag leg. Yeah he's taller than me, his torso is longer i'm sure and legs might be 6-8 inches longer, but he was jumping higher than i was as well...

Comparatively, it's not out of the realm that he could approach 40". 36"-39" is a definIte in my book.

(I just measured my standing reach, 93" on my tip toes...i could touch 11-12" above the rim in high school, which is about 132 inches...which comes out to a 38-39 inch vertical.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:06 AM   #234
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

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Originally Posted by bwink23
When i did track in high school, i did long jump and high jump....i'm about 5'10" track shoes, and i cleared 6'0 on my best jump...i went backward and couldn't bend for shit....The top of my waist (point of reference) is 39"....I would have to jump 6'6" just to clear my ass over the bar, giving a rough vertical of around 37-39"...( I could touch 11-12"above the rim). Now Wilt was doing 6'6" with a proven CRAPPIER style of jumping. I guarantee he was clearing closer to 6'10" to 7feet with that style...watching the videos, he clears the bar pretty easily, but gets screwed with his drag leg. Yeah he's taller than me, his torso is longer i'm sure and legs might be 6-8 inches longer, but he was jumping higher than i was as well...

Comparatively, it's not out of the realm that he could approach 40". 36"-39" is a definIte in my book.

(I just measured my standing reach, 93" on my tip toes...i could touch 11-12" above the rim in high school, which is about 132 inches...which comes out to a 38-39 inch vertical.

I did long jump and had a 36" max-vertical. I'm a white guy. Anyone who thinks a top tier NCAA High Jumper has a vertical the same as an above average but nothing too special white high-school competitive long-jumper is literally bat-shit stupid.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:08 AM   #235
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
40" - yes

And I'm in good company about thinking he would dominate

Every NBA player agree's. You won't find one that won't. Kobe ranked him #1 ahead of himself. U mad?


I don't think players/people ranking Wilt #1 means they think he would dominate in todays league. They are just doing exactly what any rational person should do, and ranking Wilt against his peers, for which he was obviously superior.


Anyone who thinks Wilt would even come close to replicating his statistics or dominance in todays league is simply drinking the cool-aid.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:11 AM   #236
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
I did long jump and had a 36" max-vertical. I'm a white guy. Anyone who thinks a top tier NCAA High Jumper has a vertical the same as an above average but nothing too special white high-school competitive long-jumper is literally bat-shit stupid.


Wilt was using an archaic and inferior jumping style as well...i don't think i could have cleared 6'0" like that, you'd lose too much upward force trying to lay your body over the bar flat.

Last edited by bwink23 : 02-28-2012 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:11 AM   #237
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

And I don't really understand the extreme focus on Wilt's physical abilities. Javalle Mcgee is a physical specimen as well... so what? James White can do a 360, between the legs, from the FT dunk... so what?
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:12 AM   #238
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
I don't think players/people ranking Wilt #1 means they think he would dominate in todays league. They are just doing exactly what any rational person should do, and ranking Wilt against his peers, for which he was obviously superior.


Anyone who thinks Wilt would even come close to replicating his statistics or dominance in todays league is simply drinking the cool-aid.

Statistics no - obviously. Relative dominance, yes. That's not out of the question. He's the same weight with greater wingspan and higher reach than Yao Ming... except... how athletic was he? How strong was he?

How dominant was Yao Ming when he was healthy despite moving around with the agility and speed of Frankenstein's monster?

Doesn't take much stretch of the imagination to believe he'd be the most dominant player in the league.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:13 AM   #239
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Based on this dumbass. Not based pictures of him playing basketball.




Calling me a dumbass, yet posting that long ass moronic drivel of a post, a high jump and a vertical are two entirely different types of jumps. A vertical is measured off no step, or 1 step and jumping off TWO FEET, your moronic copy and paste job has Wilt running and jumping off one foot.

Whoever posted that original post is just as delusional as you, wouldn't be surprised if it was Jlauber.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:13 AM   #240
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain free throw dunks:

16 pages and no empirical proof in the form of a photo or video of wilt ever doing anything like that
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