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Old 03-01-2012, 09:40 PM   #1
DaHeezy
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Default Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Where the casual fan will only be interested in the main events?
Does the UFC have enough star power to hold events where 5 fights can still draw interest?
I've been noticing more and more that fans are only tuned in to the main or co-main events and really have nothing invested in fights with up and comers or mainstay fighters. The way champions are clearing out there divisions and super fights being set up with urgency it feels that way.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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Originally Posted by DaHeezy
Where the casual fan will only be interested in the main events?
Does the UFC have enough star power to hold events where 5 fights can still draw interest?
I've been noticing more and more that fans are only tuned in to the main or co-main events and really have nothing invested in fights with up and comers or mainstay fighters. The way champions are clearing out there divisions and super fights being set up with urgency it feels that way.

Thoughts?

I think we are a long way away from that. MMA is definitely more exciting for the casual fan because something crazy can happen at any instant. Even if some no name guy pulls off a good submission, it will land well with the crowd where as with boxing, if a no name guy gets a knockout it isn't really that enthralling. Just my two cents.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

This really doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I'm just wondering how the PPV numbers have been for the last few UFC events. I've been seeing a lot more advertisements, but not as much on the word of mouth front lately.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

i have a turrible habit of only tuning in to the very biggest events, but anytime i accidentally start watching a random card i just can't take my eyes off it. bellator, SF, dream, TUF, whatever...

MMA is inherently fascinating because it's the closest thing to cutting-edge fights in the real world. boxing has one-dimensional fighters going at it with custom-designed pillows strapped to their hands.

so i may be biased, but i do think that MMA intrinsically has far more to offer than boxing or "wrestling." then again, the numbers of people looking for fantasy rather than reality continue to grow...
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
This really doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I'm just wondering how the PPV numbers have been for the last few UFC events. I've been seeing a lot more advertisements, but not as much on the word of mouth front lately.

Be interesting to see.
I'll say this much, Dana does a good job promoting the event where boxing promoters concentrate more on the fight.
But from my observation the casual fan only tune in to who's hot.
Take the last event. Mark Hunt vs. Chiek Kongo was the makings of a slugfest. Yet I was in a household where one other guy outside myself showed any interest. The rest of the crowd was like "who's Mark Hunt?" Or " Kongo sucks now."
Once Frankie and Bendo came on everybody tuned in. Looking at the upcoming Shard vs. Bones card, I get this feeling it'll flow the same way. Main events are spectacular, but throwing together undercards that are close to spectacular are looking scarce for the near future.
Again, this is my observation looking at a casual fan
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
This really doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I'm just wondering how the PPV numbers have been for the last few UFC events. I've been seeing a lot more advertisements, but not as much on the word of mouth front lately.

I think recent ones have all done fairly well aside from 142
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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It was not a good year for the UFC at the pay-per-view box office. Blame what you will - too many events, injuries to key fighters, bad economy - but the company only sold 6.79 million PPVs this year, as opposed to 9.215 million last year. It is the UFC's lowest sales mark since 2008, and its average of 424,375 sales per PPV is
its lowest since 2007. Will things turn around in 2012? From the looks of the card for this Saturday's UFC 142, probably not anytime soon.

http://www.mma-manifesto.com/ufc-ppv...-buyrates.html

That article doesn't paint a pretty picture (Brock's last fight didn't break 1 mil?), but I think those still look like solid numbers, just not as great when UFC first started to burst onto the scene. I was a pretty big MMA fan up until Pride got dismantled, since then I've been teetering towards boxing. Can't really explain why though.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
http://www.mma-manifesto.com/ufc-ppv...-buyrates.html

That article doesn't paint a pretty picture (Brock's last fight didn't break 1 mil?), but I think those still look like solid numbers, just not as great when UFC first started to burst onto the scene. I was a pretty big MMA fan up until Pride got dismantled, since then I've been teetering towards boxing. Can't really explain why though.

I think a great boxing fight will always garner more attention than an MMA event or a single MMA fight. The sport just has too much history behind it I guess. I agree about Pride though; it was the epitome of MMA. The idea of a "cage" is just barberic and gimmicky to me as is the production/announcing of the UFC.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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Originally Posted by Simple Jack
I agree about Pride though; it was the epitome of MMA.

Fixed fights, Yakuza influence, roid use being legal and freakshow fights is the epitome of MMA? Pride had a lot of awesomeness, but you can't just sweep all the bad shit away.

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The idea of a "cage" is just barberic and gimmicky to me as is the production/announcing of the UFC.

What? The cage is much better. No rings to get tangled in and no having to stop the fight to move the fighters away from the ropes. Pride's production was gimmicky. The UFC's is fairly barebones while Pride spiced theirs up with fireworks, pyro, a dude in a diaper banging a drum and they used the horrible, and highly annoying screaming lady, Lenne Hardt.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
Fixed fights, Yakuza influence, roid use being legal and freakshow fights is the epitome of MMA? Pride had a lot of awesomeness, but you can't just sweep all the bad shit away.



What? The cage is much better. No rings to get tangled in and no having to stop the fight to move the fighters away from the ropes. Pride's production was gimmicky. The UFC's is fairly barebones while Pride spiced theirs up with fireworks, pyro, a dude in a diaper banging a drum and they used the horrible, and highly annoying screaming lady, Lenne Hardt.

did u ever watch pride in like circa 2004? Gimmicky is the gladiator opening, pride was epic beyond belief when nog walked out and the statue of brazil was projected onto the dome u felt like the fight was about something.

UFC has not come close to the level of presentation that pride was able to do.

And the cage is way too big.. But great for point fighters like condit or Edgar tho.
Cage favors American wrestlers
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
Fixed fights, Yakuza influence, roid use being legal and freakshow fights is the epitome of MMA? Pride had a lot of awesomeness, but you can't just sweep all the bad shit away.


What? The cage is much better. No rings to get tangled in and no having to stop the fight to move the fighters away from the ropes. Pride's production was gimmicky. The UFC's is fairly barebones while Pride spiced theirs up with fireworks, pyro, a dude in a diaper banging a drum and they used the horrible, and highly annoying screaming lady, Lenne Hardt.

How is the production of Pride gimmicky? You enjoy the drunk fans? Booing the ground game? Everybody just itching for blood instead of respecting technique? Joe Rogan wearing club shirts and the completely biased announcing? Don't tell me you like Bruce Buffer + Rogan/his douchey partner more than Quadros and Bas...

Pride produced the best fighters of all-time as well as the majority of the best fights of all-time. Not to mention the less frequent TERRIBLE decisions and the round structure being 10000x better. It gave ground fighters a fair chance to work their game. Don't even get me started on the Refs or the use of elbows in UFC.

When did fighters get tangled in the ring? The cage gives such a huge advantage to wrestlers it's absurd. It was introduced in order to make it seem like a realistic street fight but in reality, you'd be fighting in an open space, not against a cage or fence; which a ring does a better job of exemplifying.


Oh yea, how could I forget...the Grand Prix. Would be nice if UFC did ANYTHING remotely close to the good ol' Pride days.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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Originally Posted by heyhey
did u ever watch pride in like circa 2004? Gimmicky is the gladiator opening, pride was epic beyond belief when nog walked out and the statue of brazil was projected onto the dome u felt like the fight was about something.

Thankfully, they got rid of the Gladiator opening and their opening is much better now. Too bad they kept the crappy intro song, though. I just don't need all the fancy bells and whistles that Pride had. I watch MMA for the fights and not for fireworks, pyrotechnics and some annoying banshee screeching out fighters' names. That's the gimmicky stuff.

Quote:
UFC has not come close to the level of presentation that pride was able to do.

They don't want to. Dana said they don't want to waste money on that stuff.

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Cage favors American wrestlers

Only 1 champ uses wrestling more than striking and he used to do plenty of striking.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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Originally Posted by Simple Jack
How is the production of Pride gimmicky?

Pride used all that pro wrestling gimmicky stuff. Fireworks, pyro, lights, naked dude banging a drum, fancy openings, horrible woman screeching fighters' names, etc...

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You enjoy the drunk fans? Booing the ground game? Everybody just itching for blood instead of respecting technique?

What does that have to do with the production/announcing? The drunken fans don't bother me that much, but I don't care for the booing. However, I'm not a big fan of the Japanese silent, are we in a library crowds either. I like the emotion of the crowd. It can be an electric atmosphere with the chanting and cheering.

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Joe Rogan wearing club shirts and the completely biased announcing? Don't tell me you like Bruce Buffer + Rogan/his douchey partner more than Quadros and Bas...

Quadros is boring as hell and Bas is biased to hell himself. Who gives a shit what Rogan wears anyways? I'll take Rogan over anyone. Bas would be #2. I'll take Buffer a billion times over the screeching banshee.

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Pride produced the best fighters of all-time as well as the majority of the best fights of all-time.

It depends on how you define 'produced'. Anderson Silva didn't fight in Pride that many times, and fought in other orgs before that. Henderson fought in the UFC before Pride. Fedor fought in Rings before Pride. Bas never fought in Pride. Saku fought in the UFC before Pride. Shogun fought elsewhere before Pride. So did Nog. Wandy fought in the UFC before he fought in Pride. Hughes and GSP never fought in Pride. And, Ortiz, Penn, Couture, and Liddell all began their careers in the UFC.

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Not to mention the less frequent TERRIBLE decisions and the round structure being 10000x better.

They have a better scoring system in Japan, but they still had their share of horrible decisions.

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Don't even get me started on the Refs or the use of elbows in UFC.

Go for it. Japanese refs aren't that good. Someone like Aoki is allowed to punch someone in the back of the head a million times without even getting a warning while foreigners will get yellow-carded for BS reasons.

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When did fighters get tangled in the ring?

You're going to pretend you never saw anyone get caught up in the ropes? Hell, one guy lost his ear in the ropes.

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The cage gives such a huge advantage to wrestlers it's absurd. It was introduced in order to make it seem like a realistic street fight but in reality, you'd be fighting in an open space, not against a cage or fence; which a ring does a better job of exemplifying.

Not really. Do they pause streetfights because one guy is too far under the ropes? It's not supposed to mirror streetfighting anyways. Some guys use the ropes to avoid subs and strikes. Also, wrestlers' advantage with the cage is lessening with fighters getting better at defending it. The top 10 lists for each weightclass aren't dominated by people who rely heavily on wrestling. Strikers can do quite well in the UFC: JDS, Jones, Silva, Bendo, Aldo, and Cruz.

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Oh yea, how could I forget...the Grand Prix. Would be nice if UFC did ANYTHING remotely close to the good ol' Pride days.

The problem with GPs is that the best guy usually doesn't win. It's about who was lucky and didn't get injured.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

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Old 03-02-2012, 02:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: Will MMA ever go the way of boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
Pride used all that pro wrestling gimmicky stuff. Fireworks, pyro, lights, naked dude banging a drum, fancy openings, horrible woman screeching fighters' names, etc...
That's called a good production that went along with the Japanese culture. I don't think any objective person can honestly, with a straight face, insist UFC's production comes anywhere close to Pride's let along it being anything BUT gimmicky.



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What does that have to do with the production/announcing? The drunken fans don't bother me that much, but I don't care for the booing. However, I'm not a big fan of the Japanese silent, are we in a library crowds either. I like the emotion of the crowd. It can be an electric atmosphere with the chanting and cheering.

It's all part of it. The Japanese fans understood the sport and what was going on to a degree that the UFC crowd hasn't and likely never will. You can tell in their reactions based on the style of fights. It goes to the ground? You hear boos in no time which result in terribly early standups. The Japanese crowd had a great respect for technique and weren't simply there to see blood and brawls.


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Quadros is boring as hell and Bas is biased to hell himself. Who gives a shit what Rogan wears anyways? I'll take Rogan over anyone. Bas would be #2. I'll take Buffer a billion times over the screeching banshee.
Again, it's part of the production and highly unprofessional. Rogan and the UFC crew roll with a fighter before hand and give terribly subjective announcing throughout a fight based on it. Goldberg is like a sound board every fight.


Quote:
It depends on how you define 'produced'. Anderson Silva didn't fight in Pride that many times, and fought in other orgs before that. Henderson fought in the UFC before Pride. Fedor fought in Rings before Pride. Bas never fought in Pride. Saku fought in the UFC before Pride. Shogun fought elsewhere before Pride. So did Nog. Wandy fought in the UFC before he fought in Pride. Hughes and GSP never fought in Pride. And, Ortiz, Penn, Couture, and Liddell all began their careers in the UFC.
He fought in Pride before UFC. Fedor made his name in Pride. Noguiera made his name in Pride. Sakuraba made his name in Pride. Silva made his name in Pride. Verdum made his name in Pride. Shogun made his name in Pride. Rampage made his name in Pride. Cro-Cop made his name in Pride. Rogerio made his name in Pride. The list goes on and on.



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They have a better scoring system in Japan, but they still had their share of horrible decisions.
All combat sports do. The frequency is much higher in UFC. Takedowns resulting in nothing but a standup and late flurries/damage winning rounds is beyond retarded.


Quote:
Go for it. Japanese refs aren't that good. Someone like Aoki is allowed to punch someone in the back of the head a million times without even getting a warning while foreigners will get yellow-carded for BS reasons.
Thanks for mentioning the yellow card system. Another advantage Pride had over UFC.



Quote:
You're going to pretend you never saw anyone get caught up in the ropes? Hell, one guy lost his ear in the ropes.
It was rare. The ring allowed for a more free range fight that was fair for all styles of fighters rather than the Cage which gives a wrestler a severe advantage. It's a damn cage for ****s sake. How much more gimmicky and silly can you get?



Quote:
Not really. Do they pause streetfights because one guy is too far under the ropes? It's not supposed to mirror streetfighting anyways. Some guys use the ropes to avoid subs and strikes. Also, wrestlers' advantage with the cage is lessening with fighters getting better at defending it. The top 10 lists for each weightclass aren't dominated by people who rely heavily on wrestling. Strikers can do quite well in the UFC: JDS, Jones, Silva, Bendo, Aldo, and Cruz.
It's not supposed to be a street fight. It's a sport. If pausing is an issue because it breaks a fighters rhythm; especially one that has ground control, then take issue with the 5 minute rounds of the UFC which puts ground fighters at a huge disadvantage.



Quote:
The problem with GPs is that the best guy usually doesn't win. It's about who was lucky and didn't get injured.
I was referring to it in regards to the entertainment factor. You can't tell me a tournament featuring the best fighters in the world in a single event is awesome. On top of that, Silva and Fedor won their respective weight class Grand Prix's with the finals of each being arguably the top 2 fighters in each weight class....in the world.
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