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Old 05-26-2013, 02:07 AM   #3691
2013 Lakers
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Disagreed.

What it is not is voluntary manslaughter nor 2nd degree murder. For it to be voluntary manslaughter, Trayvon has to be the one provoking Zimmerman but based on the evidences:

1. He was trying to get away.

2. He was clearly over powered since Zimmerman had scratches all over his face; that was not an altercation; that was a man trying to restrain a boy who was trying to break free. The wounds are similar to many rape suspects who sustain injuries from victims they are trying to hold down.

3. There was clear evidence in the audio the altercation was over and the kid was in pain and begging for his life. At this point (about 3-5 minutes) Zimmerman was in complete control of the situation; the threat was neutralized but he made a premeditated choice to pull out his gun and execute the kid anyway.


Numero 3 to me is a premeditative action. Zimmerman had two choices: restrain the kid and wait for the cops or execute him. He CHOSE not to wait for the cops. They were on their way; he CHOSE to quickly kill Trayvon because he knew he could lie his way out of it. It was a rational decision.

90% of your post is pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
I'm thinking voluntary man slaughter and the jury being dead locked on 2nd degree murder.
I agree with this. Put me down for manslaughter.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:21 AM   #3692
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

voluntary manslaughter

I've thought this for a long time now.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:12 AM   #3693
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013 Lakers
90% of your post is pure speculation.


Speculation based on known facts so far.

1. 911 call where Zimmerman provides a motive.

2. 911 call with Trayvon screaming in agony.

3. Scratch marks which indicates a struggle and not an altercation.

4. Police report inconsistent with Zimmerman's account (which indicates he could be lying).

Everything I say is backed with a strong premise; I just don't pull sh*t out of my a*s like many of you so call "intelligent" posters around here.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:18 AM   #3694
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
voluntary manslaughter

I've thought this for a long time now.

No way.

For it to be voluntary manslaughter Tray has to clearly provoke Zim to engage in the killing. He ran away. Zim was told not to follow him; Tray screamed for help before the shooting when he did not present a clear threat (which shows he did not provoke Zim to pull the trigger: Zim did it by premeditation). Zim killed him any way (which is malice and clear intent to kill).

Clearly Zim incited the altercation due to some ego vigilante complex.

Last edited by IamRAMBO24 : 05-26-2013 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:55 AM   #3695
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
voluntary manslaughter

I've thought this for a long time now.
The factors that will tend to favor a conviction on second degree murder are:

1) The two most fundamental rules for Neighborhood Watch volunteers, as established by the National Sheriffs Association, is that members should (i) NEVER confront a "suspicious" person; and (ii) it is absolutely forbidden to effect duties while armed, no matter if the appropriate gun license has been granted.

In short, why did the "Watch captain" leave his vehicle after deliberately chambering his gun when he clearly knew, or should have known, that he wasn't supposed to do be acting in such a manner?

Whenever you confront a person while armed, there is always the possibility of violent death. In this circumstance, I can clearly posit that the shooter acted with of "depraved mind without regard for human life".

Add that to the killer's unrepentant appearance on FOX News, where he talked about the shooting being "god's will", and it is abundantly apparent that he had very little, or any, regard for Trayvon's life.

2) The injuries suffered by the shooter were clearly superficial, and did not in any way provide justification for the use of lethal force.

In addition, the forensic evidence does not match the story that was told. There is no foreign DNA under Trayvon's fingernails and very few instances on the rest of his body and clothing.

Other wild cards are the existence of text messages sent to by the killer to Trayvon's father and a leader in the movement to effect his arrest that were sealed because they would could cause persons to be "prejudicial" to the case.

Conclusion: the killer acted with some measure of knowledge that he was not supposed to ever confront Trayvon, and that he definitely shouldn't do so while armed. Therefore, there is more here than manslaughter, as some thought and premeditation had to have entered the thought process for the events of that night to have unfolded as tragically as they did.

Last edited by Shepseskaf : 05-26-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:16 AM   #3696
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Nerds in this forum.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:25 AM   #3697
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Nerds in this forum.
This was mature.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:26 AM   #3698
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello
Nerds in this forum.
No, just people discussing the topic by providing factual information and solid research.

If all this is over your head, then find another thread to comment on.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:22 AM   #3699
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello
Nerds in this forum.

I have never understood why intellectual curiosity was a bad thing. Is it better being ignorant?
I proudly consider myself a nerd
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:13 PM   #3700
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
1st degree murder - IamRAMBO24



Rambo might be retarded. He just might be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
I should be Trayvon's lawyer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real JW
2nd degree isn't accidental. It's murder without premeditation and forethought. Where death is a distinct possibility but there's no planning in advance (like 1st).
That's manslaughter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
2nd degree has intent to kill but not directed towards the person you are killing
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Trayvon's lawyer is probably some sh*tty public defender
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Trayvon's lawyers are so stupid because they are going to play the race card.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:24 PM   #3701
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
No way.

For it to be voluntary manslaughter Tray has to clearly provoke Zim to engage in the killing. He ran away. Zim was told not to follow him; Tray screamed for help before the shooting when he did not present a clear threat (which shows he did not provoke Zim to pull the trigger: Zim did it by premeditation). Zim killed him any way (which is malice and clear intent to kill).

Clearly Zim incited the altercation due to some ego vigilante complex.

unfortunately you cant prove one way or the other beyond the shadow of a doubt who started the fight.

since you cant do that I dont see how you can get a murder conviction.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:15 PM   #3702
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
unfortunately you cant prove one way or the other beyond the shadow of a doubt who started the fight.

since you cant do that I dont see how you can get a murder conviction.
Who started the fight is not the most important factor. What matters is whether the shooter was legally justified in using lethal force in "self-defense".

Fights happen all the time but if someone ends up dead, unless the killer can prove self-defense, they're going to jail. In this case, the obvious superficiality of the wounds indicates that a life threatening scenario isn't likely, and does not augur well for the shooter.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:20 PM   #3703
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
unfortunately you cant prove one way or the other beyond the shadow of a doubt who started the fight.

since you cant do that I dont see how you can get a murder conviction.

There is evidence the fight is over, situation neutralized, and Zim decided to kill any way.

They are calling it 2nd degree murder which has malicious intent but no premeditation; that to me is clearly premeditation.

I don't think anyone is acting "in the heat of the moment" anymore when a person is crying and pleading for his life.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:42 PM   #3704
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Disagreed.

What it is not is voluntary manslaughter nor 2nd degree murder. For it to be voluntary manslaughter, Trayvon has to be the one provoking Zimmerman but based on the evidences:

1. He was trying to get away.

2. He was clearly over powered since Zimmerman had scratches all over his face; that was not an altercation; that was a man trying to restrain a boy who was trying to break free. The wounds are similar to many rape suspects who sustain injuries from victims they are trying to hold down.

3. There was clear evidence in the audio the altercation was over and the kid was in pain and begging for his life. At this point (about 3-5 minutes) Zimmerman was in complete control of the situation; the threat was neutralized but he made a premeditated choice to pull out his gun and execute the kid anyway.


Numero 3 to me is a premeditative action. Zimmerman had two choices: restrain the kid and wait for the cops or execute him. He CHOSE not to wait for the cops. They were on their way; he CHOSE to quickly kill Trayvon because he knew he could lie his way out of it. It was a rational decision.


None of that shows that Zimmerman started the altercation. In order for it to be murder 1, Zimmerman had to have planned to kill Trayvon from the very beginning. That wasn't the case. That alone takes away murder 1, hence why it's an option in the case. There's certainly enough for murder 2, but there was no planning to kill. That's why murder 1 is off the table.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:25 PM   #3705
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J.
None of that shows that Zimmerman started the altercation. In order for it to be murder 1, Zimmerman had to have planned to kill Trayvon from the very beginning. That wasn't the case. That alone takes away murder 1, hence why it's an option in the case. There's certainly enough for murder 2, but there was no planning to kill. That's why murder 1 is off the table.

That's a misunderstanding of premeditation. The plan can occur in a month or 3 minutes.

He didn't have to kill Trayvon when he was crying in agony. He chose to do it. When you choose to kill with no clear sign of a threat, it's no longer "in the heat of the moment" which would make it premeditation.

They were actually going to charge him with 1st degree murder but backed out due to political pressure.
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