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Old 06-29-2013, 02:18 AM   #4141
andremiller07
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
Lmao! Are you serious? 46 pounds of weight is HUGE when factoring in being able to put power behind your punch and take the punch of a lighter man. Why do you think there are weight classes in boxing? Because despite skill a poor heavyweight can defeat a masterful lightweight with one good punch.
Makes no difference if you got a glass chin or if the lighter guy has natural punching power or hits you in the sweet spot/you don't see the punch coming, I don't get why people assume if a guy is larger he has a better chin to a lighter man that's not true at all. Unless you got a iron chin it's really not that hard to KO someone or get KOed yourself. The reason they have weight classes in fighting Is cause they train and are pro's just everyday people anything can happened regardless of size.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:57 AM   #4142
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

3 days a week of MMA? Maybe Zimmerman was losing but if so he's got to be oe of the sorriest martial arts students ever.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:33 AM   #4143
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by andremiller07
Makes no difference if you got a glass chin or if the lighter guy has natural punching power or hits you in the sweet spot/you don't see the punch coming, I don't get why people assume if a guy is larger he has a better chin to a lighter man that's not true at all. Unless you got a iron chin it's really not that hard to KO someone or get KOed yourself. The reason they have weight classes in fighting Is cause they train and are pro's just everyday people anything can happened regardless of size.
The reason they have weight classes is because size is one of, if not, the biggestadvantages you can have in a fight. Anyone that disagrees isa little 5'8 chump.get better genes
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:18 AM   #4144
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by MAC system
The reason they have weight classes is because size is one of, if not, the biggestadvantages you can have in a fight. Anyone that disagrees isa little 5'8 chump.get better genes

it CAN matter .. doesn't mean it will matter .. especially in a situation like that night .. anything can happen and if you get the upperhand on someone, you can negate that size difference
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:20 AM   #4145
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

someone on tv made an interesting point which was that the prosecution brought up the mma thing to connect it to good who mentioned 'mma' .. so as to say that it was zimmerman who was attacking 'mma style' .. if that is true though, you would have to believe good is lying
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:29 AM   #4146
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by dude77
it CAN matter .. doesn't mean it will matter .. especially in a situation like that night .. anything can happen and if you get the upperhand on someone, you can negate that size difference
This exactly, anyone can king hit anyone out in the street it's not hard, just cause you have 40pounds on someone does not mean you can take a proper punch from them.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #4147
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude77
zimmerman didn't have to have life threatening injuries to 'defend himself' .. that's the whole @#@#%# point of defending himself .. to avoid receiving life threatening injuries .. if you wait for someone to seriously wound you, you probably won't have a chance to 'defend yourself' and you may die .. not hard to comprehend this .. zimmerman had head trauma .. head trauma, if not stopped, can very easily lead to death

The severity of his injuries matters because he described a very specific attack that should have resulted in much more serious injuries than swelling that only lasted for an hr and 2 small scratches that required no stitches/sutures. And on the flip side, the only injury (besides the gunshot wound) documented to Trayvon Martin was a 1/4" abrasion on his left ring finger. If you repeatedly punch a man 20-30 times and continually slam his head into concrete, you're not going to only find swelling, two small cuts on the victim and a 1/4" abrasion on the attacker. If you do, then obviously someone is lying about what really happened.

Then add into the mix that no witness saw or heard any blows being thrown (not even Mr. Good and his 'MMA' talk), no witness saw or heard his head being slammed on concrete, no witness saw or heard him being smothered (and the DNA evidence clearly refutes this too). That's why I think the Prosecution will start on Mon by calling Det. Serino up to the stand. He heard all the 'MMA' stuff before the witness 'clarified' that he didn't see shit and he still originally wanted 2nd degree murder charges to be filed against Zim when he concluded his investigation. Here's one reason why:
Serino: Listen, itís not a guarantee, but like I said a strong possibility, Iím hoping myself. OK. Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, Iíve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries. You do have injuries, however. Um, how did he manage to bang your head, and, OK, correct me if I misunderstood what you said here as far as slamming the head into the concrete. Into the cement thing. Howíd he do that?

Serino: OK, you never got a chance to hit him, you have no defense wounds here, um, any bruising on your body at all?

Serino: No broken ribs, no fractured ribs, none of that?

Serino: I mean, a lot of people donít think that your injuries are consistent with getting in a life-threatening type thing

Serino: Thatís why weíre here today. Once again, these can be interpreted as capillary-type cuts or whatever, lacerations, uh, not really, um, coinciding with being slammed hard into the ground. OK? Thatís skull fractures is you happen with that. Iíve seen Ďem all, you know.

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025
So the severity of the injuries DOES matter because George described a very specific attack that involves dozens of punches, head being slammed on concrete, smothering. But the eyewitnesses, DNA evidence, medical evidence, and the experience of a seasoned detective contradict all that. George had very minor wounds that only required a superficial cleaning. He had no defensive wounds as you'd expect in the kind of attack he described. Trayvon had only a tiny abrasion on his off hand ring finger. Trayvon had no blood on his hands or sleeves (George was never smothered). No eyewitnesses saw or heard anything he described.

And after interviewing George as well as the witnesses and only getting a small sample of the evidence, the lead Detective wanted 2nd degree murder charges filed.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:31 AM   #4148
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC system
The reason they have weight classes is because size is one of, if not, the biggestadvantages you can have in a fight. Anyone that disagrees isa little 5'8 chump.get better genes
Yes for trained fighters on similar grounds of skill. Which is not the case here. Tray von was a large black male somewhat athletic used to brawling at and around school. He obviously knew how to fight in the street.

He's very obviously going to have better reflexes than Zimmerman based on age build and his length + aggression would allow him to tee off real quick on Zimmerman. No doubt that first punch popped him right in the nose and allowed TM to mount him on the ground. Basic fighting instincts developed from previous fights would allow trayvon to know how to sprawl and use his longer legs as leverage to try and keep top position and he likely was trying to slam his head into the ground as Zimmerman grabbed his wrists and blocked punches. Zimmerman not being able to get him off for an extended period of time drew his gun and fired.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:37 AM   #4149
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude77
someone on tv made an interesting point which was that the prosecution brought up the mma thing to connect it to good who mentioned 'mma' .. so as to say that it was zimmerman who was attacking 'mma style'

Eh, not really. A lot of MMA is about ground fighting and knowledge of what to do to maintain the upperhand while someone is on their back. A lot of MMA fighters, especially those who practice Brazilian jiujitsu are more comfortable on their backs.

George himself mentioned that he overpowered Trayvon by using 'wrist control'.

Quote:
.. if that is true though, you would have to believe good is lying

No, he seemed like a reliable witness to me. He just made a lot of assumptions that he had to later 'clarify'. He originally said he saw someone raining down blows MMA style but then later made it clear he never saw or heard anyone throwing/landing any blows. He originally said he heard Zimmerman screaming for help, but then he later made it clear he really has no clue who was yelling. He didn't see anyone's face/mouth and, again, assumed it came from Zimmerman.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:46 AM   #4150
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Yes for trained fighters on similar grounds of skill. Which is not the case here. Tray von was a large black male somewhat athletic used to brawling at and around school. He obviously knew how to fight in the street.

He's very obviously going to have better reflexes than Zimmerman based on age build and his length aggression would allow him to tee off real quick on Zimmerman. No doubt that first punch popped him right in the nose and allowed TM to mount him on the ground. Basic fighting instincts developed from previous fights would allow trayvon to know how to sprawl and use his longer legs as leverage to try and keep top position and he likely was trying to slam his head into the ground as Zimmerman grabbed his wrists and blocked punches. Zimmerman not being able to get him off for an extended period of time drew his gun and fired.


The people going for Zimmerman seem to create their own re-inventions of the scene rather than going by what's known.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:56 AM   #4151
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by andremiller07
This exactly, anyone can king hit anyone out in the street it's not hard, just cause you have 40pounds on someone does not mean you can take a proper punch from them.

not sure how old some of the guys in this thread are...there's a huge physical advantage between a full grown man like zimm and a teenager. It's a very hard thing to get the upper hand on a 30 yr old as a teenager. Almost never going to happen without years of training or some JaDeveon Clowney genetics.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:56 AM   #4152
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictator
The people going for Zimmerman seem to create their own re-inventions of the scene rather than going by what's known.
Do you mean the people going for Zimmerman head or the people on his side?

I personally think, based on all the evidence being argued, he was trailing the kid making sure he didn't do anything.. Got confronted and popped and then was grappling on the ground with the kid for a while before he shot him. Now if the kid reached for his gun that makes it even more in zims favor. Well never know that though.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:58 AM   #4153
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

it would be a great injustice if this zimmerman idiot did not go to jail for bringing a gun to a fist fight he asked for.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:16 AM   #4154
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Got confronted

And what exactly presented in court so far denotes that Zimmerman 'got confronted' and didn't chase after the kid who ran away from him and tried repeatedly to evade him and then tried to physically detain him when he caught up to him?

So far the latter is the only version the jury has heard. Only one who can refute that is Zim if he takes the stand, but for whatever reason the defense is avoiding that like the plague.

Quote:
Now if the kid reached for his gun that makes it even more in zims favor. Well never know that though.

Another logistical issue with Zim's story. Let's use visuals. Here's the 'MMA stance' that Trayvon was supposedly in when he attempted to, inexplicably and without motive, murder a perfect stranger:



Let's for now forget how the hell Zim would be able to reach his gun and unholster from this position... let's focus on how Trayvon would've seen the gun, in the dark, that was under his leg and Zim's clothing. Any ideas how the hell that's possible?

Zim told his good buddy Mark Osterman (who worked in the sheriff's department under the supervision of Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, or 'Billy' as Osterman referred to him) that Trayvon actually grabbed the gun in a specific point, the rear sight if I'm not mistaken. Problem is they did DNA testing on the gun and didn't find any of Trayvon's prints on it.

So basically you have a logistical problem of how Trayvon would've even been able to see/reach for the gun unless he wasn't in the 'MMA' position. Then you have the DNA evidence saying there's no proof whatsoever he ever physically touched the weapon.

So yeah... No.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #4155
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda
And what exactly presented in court so far denotes that Zimmerman 'got confronted' and didn't chase after the kid who ran away from him and tried repeatedly to evade him and then tried to physically detain him when he caught up to him?

So far the latter is the only version the jury has heard. Only one who can refute that is Zim if he takes the stand, but for whatever reason the defense is avoiding that like the plague.
I already said he was following him.. trayvon got sick of being unjustly followed and turned around on him at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda
Another logistical issue with Zim's story. Let's use visuals. Here's the 'MMA stance' that Trayvon was supposedly in when he attempted to, inexplicably and without motive, murder a perfect stranger:



Let's for now forget how the hell Zim would be able to reach his gun and unholster from this position... let's focus on how Trayvon would've seen the gun, in the dark, that was under his leg and Zim's clothing. Any ideas how the hell that's possible?

Zim told his good buddy Mark Osterman (who worked in the sheriff's department under the supervision of Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, or 'Billy' as Osterman referred to him) that Trayvon actually grabbed the gun in a specific point, the rear sight if I'm not mistaken. Problem is they did DNA testing on the gun and didn't find any of Trayvon's prints on it.

So basically you have a logistical problem of how Trayvon would've even been able to see/reach for the gun unless he wasn't in the 'MMA' position. Then you have the DNA evidence saying there's no proof whatsoever he ever physically touched the weapon.

So yeah... No.
Is it a irrefutable fact that trayvon had full mount? He could've just as easily been on top without that. Actually a whole lot easier to get in a regular guard than to fully mount somebody. And if he was on top in the other, much easier position to get into zims upper leg area would've been fully exposed as trayvon leaned back to posture up and use his length.
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