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Old 07-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #4396
Legend of Josh
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I think the outcome will be an all or nothing ending. He'll either get found not guilty or guilty (obviously, haha), but if it's the latter he's looking at a Murder 2 charge and will get something like shit, IDK, 25 to life? I'm not very familiar with FL law, but I'm imagining something in the ballpark of 20-25 to life (with the possibility of parole).

No matter the outcome, no matter what really happened that night - it's extremely tragic a young man not even out of his teens lost his life. What the hell was Zimmerman doing in that apartment community anyway? Did he even live there?
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #4397
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
I agree with you entirely. However the way the law is set up, and especially in this particular case, the verdict will either be guilty or not guilty. If he's found guilty, that's where the punishment phase begins. I haven't been following all that closely - but guys correct me if I'm wrong - Murder 1 is out of the question, not possible, but most likely if he's found guilty it'll be Murder 2. and there's also the possibility that if Murder 2 isn't the outcome, Manslaughter.

I believe the possible outcomes are murder 2, manslaughter or acquittal/mistrial.

And apparently the sentencing for murder and manslaughter in this case wouldn't be too different. Manslaughter would be a max of 30 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
No matter the outcome, no matter what really happened that night - it's extremely tragic a young man not even out of his teens lost his life. What the hell was Zimmerman doing in that apartment community anyway? Did he even live there?

Yeah, Zimmerman lived there. Trayvon didn't, but he was staying at his dad's girlfriend's house, I believe.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #4398
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by dude77
- you're arguing this case based off your emotions .. that's good and all but I'll stick with the facts of the case ..

I think pretty much everyone is basing their arguments and opinions off raw emotion (with the exception of the professionals working this case; which would include the police officers, detectives, lawyers on both sides and the judge herself). I think the jury will base their opinions and ultimate decisions primarily off raw emotion. I don't always feel a jury among your peers is the most fair outcome, but IMO it's better than a stand alone judge. Actually, I'd rather have a random jury decide someone's rate as opposed to a panel of five seven or nine Supreme Court judges.

The US judicial system isn't always fair, but it's better than many other systems across the globe. I do know from personal experience, judges make decisions based off their emotions when applicable, even if the actual law points them in another direction - they still allow what they think is right to dictate their final decision.

I've always felt indifferent about the law.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:58 PM   #4399
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Nanners
the police are still calling it self defense... yeah im sure pillsbury doughboy over here was in a lot of danger from this kid



Why do people pull up a very recent picture of Zimmerman then put it right beside a picture of Martin when the kid was practically just coming out of diapers. Alright, so that's an exaggeration, but it's not even remotely close to the exaggeration such as the picture comparison you posted (and there's countless ones out there).

I think Zimmerman is/was way bigger than Martin and the pictures of him with the bloody nose and bashed up head are exaggerated, and I doubt Zimmerman ever truly felt he was "in danger of his life" ... but there are obviously things that only Zimmerman and Martin would know about the situation. It's just tragic Martin isn't here to tell his side of the story. I can't even imagine what his family is having to endure.

Did Zimmerman live in that same apartment community? I'm still trying to figure out exactly why he was even there and following Trayvon to begin with?

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Old 07-02-2013, 04:01 PM   #4400
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Nanners meant to post this photo.

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Old 07-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #4401
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Some of you have no ****ing clue about the law. I swear. Zimmerman will be a free man in the near future.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #4402
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Nanners meant to post this photo.


lmao
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:21 PM   #4403
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
What's wilder is who leads off a fight with their weak hand against a heavier guy.

Yup, most people don't realize that the one abrasion found on Trayvon's hands was on his off-hand, his left. Who randomly and without motive attacks a man, tries to inexplicably kill him... but punching him with his off-hand?

And as the medical examiner just testified, there was evidence only consistent with one strike and one impact (back of the head meeting concrete or other hard surface). There was no evidence that Zim was 'MMA grounded and pounded' with 25-30 strikes or had his head banged on the sidewalk a dozen times as he claimed. Anyone with basic sense knows that would result in far worse injuries for both Zimmy and Trayvon.

What it looks like happened now, as I've posited since the damn beginning, is that Zimmerman tried to physically detain Trayvon somewhere in the 'T' intersection area after a short verbal exchange. Trayvon tried to run towards Brandy Green's townhouse (trail of evidence leading from the intersection towards that direction and where the body was found backs this up). He hit Zim once in the face in self defense, trying to get him off, Zim (still holding onto Trayvon's clothing) fell on his back and hit the back of his head once on the sidewalk.

Both were on the ground and this point and Zim being dazed momentarily gave Trayvon the opportunity to initially get on top in an attempt to hold him down while he called out for someone to help him. Wrestling match ensued until Zim, with his extensive MMA training and experience, was able to get 'wrist control' and reverse positions- him on top, Trayvon on the bottom, and was able to unholster, aim, and fire one shot into Trayvon's heart.

He then patted him down, flipping him over to check his back pockets before someone came out with a flashlight and the cops arrived.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #4404
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 2013 Lakers
Yeah, Zimmerman lived there. Trayvon didn't, but he was staying at his dad's girlfriend's house, I believe.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Alright, so Zimmerman did live there, Trayvon didn't ... and that's why Zimmerman was following him around? I think it sound suspicious as all hell that a man in his 30's was out at night step-by-step creeping up on some young kid in the dark. Maybe it was Trayvon who was in fear of his life, and not Zimmerman.

I mean think about it. You're just a teenager, an older man is following behind you. You're just a kid, and I don't know if Trayvon was drunk, high, or whatever (I think if he was it would have already been all over the news and I only ask bc I remember people saying something to the effect of Trayvon being a regular pot smoker). Either way, doesn't really matter.

Alright so just think if you were Trayvon, you're walking home from the store, and you notice someone is following you. A) you're thinking "why is this person following me?" and B) is this individual drunk, high or even armed or dangerous. Perhaps Trayvon thought he was about to be robbed, mugged, etc. Maybe Trayvon was in fear for his life. Something just doesn't add up to me.

All I know is after watching CNN and HLN the Defense is currently winning. Something to the effect of a few of the head/lead detective are (for lack of a better word/description) siding with Zimmerman. Not praising GZ or bashing TM, but if their testimony had to benefit one or the other, it was clearly Zimmerman. I think one of the legal experts said the Prosecution at this point has an uphill battle to face.

They also said in most cases where a man's life/sentence is on the line just as this one, the man/woman on trial would more than likely take the stand in a last effort to convince the jury to side/feel sorry for the individual on trail. They said all Zimmerman has to do is put on the best possible demeanor day-to-day while he's in the courtroom. There's enough tape/videos of him answering questions that he doesn't need to take the stand and tell his side of the story.

I think in fairness and closure for Martin's family, Zimmerman should be forced to take the stand and not so-much be drilled and questioned by the Prosecution, but that he should take the stand and let the record show he told his side of the story right there in the courtroom.

Again, I apologize for not being as informed as I should be about many of the aspects of this case, but in terms of the actual jury itself, what's its makeup? How many men/women? What are their ages and races? I think at the end of the day, the law will be the law, but that won't be what determines Zimmerman's fate; it'll be the raw emotion of the jury.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:26 PM   #4405
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Raymone
Nanners meant to post this photo.



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Old 07-02-2013, 04:37 PM   #4406
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
I only recalled Franklin but he won all of his heavier fights with striking anyway. Bonnar and Irvin were not the best at light heavy weight... .Greatest striker on the planet and he only went up in weight once to fight the best there. Jon Jones hasn't had much comp at all in his weight division. But these guys are very different than regular non trained fighters anyway.

He went UP in weight 3 Times!

- He KO'd James Irvin ( who is a very good stand up Fighter and much bigger frame then Anderson.....he trains in Sacramento and Stockton ...I have followed his career)

- He KO'd Forrest Griffin.....who is much Bigger then Anderson....FG walks around at 250lbs - 260lbs

- He KO'd Stephen Bonnar...another Large LHW.....Bonnar is an excellent Striker ( a former NY state Golden Glove champion)...and has never been KO'd before the Silva Fight.

all 3 men are naturally 30 - 40lbs heavier then Silva ( walk around weight/fight dayweight)



The Gracies were like supermen. They had the best technique in the world since like the 1940's. They had the style that could beat bigger skilled guys with regularity. I talk to Renzo and Ryan and see them twice a week: Their main school is by one of my locations. Great guys. They are opening a new school in Brooklyn. They had freaked the fight game for half of century. It was a superior style.

When I mentioned the five moves it's based on BJJ grappling technique and the new level of MMA. Before people really studied the style and began to manipulate it was more than 5 moves... but now MMA was ushered into a new level because it was a way to beat BJJ. That's how impactful BJJ was/is

yes...that's pretty much what I said....BJJ is not mitigated with 5 moves......it is a Must have technique to have......and is what MMA is founded on.



My whole problem with Zim is that he killed a kid based on his original crazy thoughts (a black kid walking in the rain is trouble). Nor do I want a society where jerks with guns can make a dozen incredibly stupid decisions, follow people and kill them with impunity. The guy is a catastrophe at best.


The guy does have a complex for sure......but I think made mistakes.....TM probably thought he was just going beat GZ azz for following him.....

TM didn't know he was armed and ready.....If TM really did swing first....Mount GZ and punch him...it was a fatal mistake.








easily avoided by both guys....if they just saw past and understood one another.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #4407
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
And as the medical examiner just testified, there was evidence only consistent with one strike and one impact (back of the head meeting concrete or other hard surface). There was no evidence that Zim was 'MMA grounded and pounded' with 25-30 strikes or had his head banged on the sidewalk a dozen times as he claimed. Anyone with basic sense knows that would result in far worse injuries for both Zimmy and Trayvon.

I have no idea where Zimmerman got that "Trayvon (or the "suspect") pounded me 30 times as I was yelling for someone to help me" ... seriously dude, 30 times? Even with moderate force or less, with 30 consecutive hits, Zimmerman would have his entire cranium bashed in, face beyond physical recognition and clearly he'd be unconscious. Combine that with Zimmerman was in fear of his life... so he ultimately pulled out his gun and slayed the teenager.

I think it's sadly pathetic the Defense, media or whoever painted that mental image of Trayvon "was only walking up to the corner store to buy some Skittles and soda pop" ... I found that just as irrelevant as when those pictures surfaced showing Trayvon flipping the double bird. Who really gives a shit, and what does that have to do with anything? We seen pictures of Trayvon on a horse, pee-wee football, etc. - but only a few of him in "thug mode" Instead of letting the facts dictate the direction of the case, the media and Prosecution is battling the Defense and those siding with the Defense with photographs and vice versa. That's why I'm saying in the end, the actual law isn't going to be what determines Zimmerman's fate; it'll be the raw emotion and core opinions of the jury - and not what some Florida law says is right or wrong, just or unjust.

Last edited by Legend of Josh : 07-02-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #4408
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #4409
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
Trayvon is considered big when he somehow can wrestle a 40lbs heavier guy down and keep him there without needing his arms to help keep Zim down (the octopus argument), but in a a full minute fight (at least) of pummeling he can only deliver damage that a 10year old kid would deliver. The two don't go together. And his weak hand was the one that made Zim fear for his life.

What's wilder is who leads off a fight with their weak hand against a heavier guy.

Depends, if he was punching close to Z then it wouldn't cause that much damage in the long run. John Good's testmony would kind of support this, as he said TM's fists were ''only going down'' indicating that TM didn't take much of a 'run up' so to speak in each punch.

If you don't understand what I mean, punch yourself in the eye (or knee) from ~~20cm, then punch yourself in the eye (or knee) from ~~50cm. Big difference.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:48 PM   #4410
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
I have no idea where Zimmerman got that "Trayvon (or the "suspect") pounded me 30 times as I was yelling for someone to help me" ... seriously dude, 30 times? Even with moderate force or less, with 30 consecutive hits, Zimmerman would have his entire cranium bashed in, face beyond physical recognition and clearly he'd be unconscious.

Yup. And Trayvon's hand would be an absolute mess. Zim also had no defensive wounds whatsoever.

You'd expect Zim to look like something like this:



Not this:



And Trayvon's hands would look like this:


Not just have one 1/4" abrasion on his off hand.

Anyone who believed Zim's account is a f*cking idiot, no offense.
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