Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-02-2013, 03:25 PM   #4396
Pointguard
NBA All-star
 
Pointguard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,404
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Someone fill me in on who went on after Serino, I had to step out for a few hrs. And looks like this medical examiner is saying what anyone with minimal common sense who took the time to review the evidence already knew- Zimmerman's story about being pummeled repeatedly (he told Serino 25-30 punches) and having his head slammed about a dozen times on cement was a pure fabrication to try to cover his ass after he killed an innocent kid.

All he had was some minor swelling that had already abated by the time he reached the police station and two small cuts (2cm, .5cm) that only required superficial cleaning and nothing more. On the flip side Trayvon only had one 1/4" abrasion on his left ring finger (he was right-handed) and no other signs of strikes or slamming or smothering whatsoever.

This is in line with what I've been saying all along- The only time Trayvon struck Zim was when both were standing and he was trying to get Zim off him when he was trying to physically detain him.

Trayvon is considered big when he somehow can wrestle a 40lbs heavier guy down and keep him there without needing his arms to help keep Zim down (the octopus argument), but in a a full minute fight (at least) of pummeling he can only deliver damage that a 10year old kid would deliver. The two don't go together. And his weak hand was the one that made Zim fear for his life.

What's wilder is who leads off a fight with their weak hand against a heavier guy.

Last edited by Pointguard : 07-02-2013 at 03:27 PM.
Pointguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:28 PM   #4397
PleezeBelieve
Thunder it DOWN, Dion!
 
PleezeBelieve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,609
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Black male walking.

Armed White-Hispanic stalks Black male for nothing.

White-Hispanic calls 911 for nothing to accuse Black male of walking.

Dispatcher told White-Hispanic to cease following Black Male.

White-Hispanic disregards dispatcher and continues to follow walking Black male even though White-Hispanic knows police are en route.

At this point Black male has done nothing wrong but White-Hispanic still feels compelled to follow Black male.


These are facts leading up to the physical altercation and shooting. Inconsistencies all abound to the point Zimmerman's account of the shooting appear even more inconsistent beyond the physical eveidence and testimony of the Chief Medical Examiner about Zimmerman's "insignificant" injuries which he claimed were life threatening.
PleezeBelieve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #4398
KevinNYC
Perfectly Calm, Dude
 
KevinNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,748
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash88
John Good's testimony suggests that Martin was the aggressor, not to mention that Martin has had a long history of aggressive, belligerent behavior with his girlfriend stating that he was "always" fighting.

Actually, it does not. He didn't see the beginning of the fight.

I listened to his testimony and for a while I thought he directly contradicted Zimmerman, but it turns out he just didn't know what horizontal meant.
O'Mara corrected him on cross.

Good's testimony helped Zimmerman because he says Martin was on top. His testimony hurt Zimmerman because he described the fight as a tussle and did not see the level of violence that Zimmerman claimed.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:37 PM   #4399
Legend of Josh
Banned
 
Legend of Josh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alch|e|mist
Posts: 10,096
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
There is no reason to let him go AT ALL. It's one thing to hate Trayvon for no reason - quite another to kill him.

I agree with you entirely. However the way the law is set up, and especially in this particular case, the verdict will either be guilty or not guilty. If he's found guilty, that's where the punishment phase begins. I haven't been following all that closely - but guys correct me if I'm wrong - Murder 1 is out of the question, not possible, but most likely if he's found guilty it'll be Murder 2. and there's also the possibility that if Murder 2 isn't the outcome, Manslaughter.
Legend of Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:42 PM   #4400
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,554
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
This is not up for debate.

Zimmer didn't see him and profile him?
Is Trayvon guilty of anything to be pursued?
Zim didn't start cursing and following him? With a gun?
Zim was told not to follow him but does so anyway?
Trayvon didn't run away from him?
Zim kills him?

We hear these things happen or know they happen without doubt. These are raw facts. You have reinterpreted them to suit your thinking.

I think its three people now that say Zim said "Wut are you doing here?" like its his private property. It's definitely confrontational for a stalker to say.

At the very least Zim is responsible for the situation. If he wasn't a complete idiot and make a half of dozen bad and stupid moves while knowing he has a gun, no way does an innocent man die. No way at all.

The things you say are in the disturbed individuals perception. Trayvon was not a suspicious person - tho you think its a fact.

The pro Zim camp is harping big on what could possibly be the confrontation moment - and what is perceived to be their interpretation of Trayvon being confrontational. They totally excuse an overly aggressive man who makes several horrible decisions with a gun and kills the young man. This is after Zim has initiated several totally foul decisions in the whole contact.

So all the guys who are pro Zim for the sake of it please, let the next guy like him be in your neighborhood and not mine.

- you have no idea whether tm was a 'suspicious person' or not .. again we weren't there .. we don't know what gz was seeing ..

- you're arguing this case based off your emotions .. that's good and all but I'll stick with the facts of the case ..

- gz wasn't stalking him .. he had no intention or thoughts of doing anything to tm .. the fact that he called the police is proof of this .. he called the police so they could come and take care of it ..

- gz is a resident there .. he's aware of a rash of break ins .. he's keeping an eye out for anyone who may look out of place or suspicious .. he has every right to do this .. he spots tm which to him seemed to look suspicious .. again we don't know what he was seeing ..

- gz calls it in(which means he has no intention of attacking and killing tm) .. in fact he mentions in the call about meeting up with an officer somewhere there when they arrive ..

- dispatcher asks him where tm is .. gz attempts to keep track of tm so he can tell the police where he is when they get there .. he has every right to do this ..

- somewhere in that timespan, they end up encountering each other ..

- the rest is up for debate

Last edited by dude77 : 07-02-2013 at 03:46 PM.
dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #4401
Legend of Josh
Banned
 
Legend of Josh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alch|e|mist
Posts: 10,096
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I think the outcome will be an all or nothing ending. He'll either get found not guilty or guilty (obviously, haha), but if it's the latter he's looking at a Murder 2 charge and will get something like shit, IDK, 25 to life? I'm not very familiar with FL law, but I'm imagining something in the ballpark of 20-25 to life (with the possibility of parole).

No matter the outcome, no matter what really happened that night - it's extremely tragic a young man not even out of his teens lost his life. What the hell was Zimmerman doing in that apartment community anyway? Did he even live there?
Legend of Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #4402
2013 Lakers
Kids at the park dunk on me
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 239
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
I agree with you entirely. However the way the law is set up, and especially in this particular case, the verdict will either be guilty or not guilty. If he's found guilty, that's where the punishment phase begins. I haven't been following all that closely - but guys correct me if I'm wrong - Murder 1 is out of the question, not possible, but most likely if he's found guilty it'll be Murder 2. and there's also the possibility that if Murder 2 isn't the outcome, Manslaughter.

I believe the possible outcomes are murder 2, manslaughter or acquittal/mistrial.

And apparently the sentencing for murder and manslaughter in this case wouldn't be too different. Manslaughter would be a max of 30 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
No matter the outcome, no matter what really happened that night - it's extremely tragic a young man not even out of his teens lost his life. What the hell was Zimmerman doing in that apartment community anyway? Did he even live there?

Yeah, Zimmerman lived there. Trayvon didn't, but he was staying at his dad's girlfriend's house, I believe.
2013 Lakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #4403
Legend of Josh
Banned
 
Legend of Josh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alch|e|mist
Posts: 10,096
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude77
- you're arguing this case based off your emotions .. that's good and all but I'll stick with the facts of the case ..

I think pretty much everyone is basing their arguments and opinions off raw emotion (with the exception of the professionals working this case; which would include the police officers, detectives, lawyers on both sides and the judge herself). I think the jury will base their opinions and ultimate decisions primarily off raw emotion. I don't always feel a jury among your peers is the most fair outcome, but IMO it's better than a stand alone judge. Actually, I'd rather have a random jury decide someone's rate as opposed to a panel of five seven or nine Supreme Court judges.

The US judicial system isn't always fair, but it's better than many other systems across the globe. I do know from personal experience, judges make decisions based off their emotions when applicable, even if the actual law points them in another direction - they still allow what they think is right to dictate their final decision.

I've always felt indifferent about the law.
Legend of Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:58 PM   #4404
Legend of Josh
Banned
 
Legend of Josh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alch|e|mist
Posts: 10,096
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
the police are still calling it self defense... yeah im sure pillsbury doughboy over here was in a lot of danger from this kid



Why do people pull up a very recent picture of Zimmerman then put it right beside a picture of Martin when the kid was practically just coming out of diapers. Alright, so that's an exaggeration, but it's not even remotely close to the exaggeration such as the picture comparison you posted (and there's countless ones out there).

I think Zimmerman is/was way bigger than Martin and the pictures of him with the bloody nose and bashed up head are exaggerated, and I doubt Zimmerman ever truly felt he was "in danger of his life" ... but there are obviously things that only Zimmerman and Martin would know about the situation. It's just tragic Martin isn't here to tell his side of the story. I can't even imagine what his family is having to endure.

Did Zimmerman live in that same apartment community? I'm still trying to figure out exactly why he was even there and following Trayvon to begin with?

Legend of Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:01 PM   #4405
Raymone
The Chosen King
 
Raymone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,815
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Nanners meant to post this photo.

Raymone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #4406
SilkkTheShocker
Trump 2016
 
SilkkTheShocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,539
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Some of you have no ****ing clue about the law. I swear. Zimmerman will be a free man in the near future.
SilkkTheShocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #4407
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,554
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymone
Nanners meant to post this photo.


lmao
dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:21 PM   #4408
DonDadda59
Lord High Executioner
 
DonDadda59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Killing Fields
Posts: 18,492
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
What's wilder is who leads off a fight with their weak hand against a heavier guy.

Yup, most people don't realize that the one abrasion found on Trayvon's hands was on his off-hand, his left. Who randomly and without motive attacks a man, tries to inexplicably kill him... but punching him with his off-hand?

And as the medical examiner just testified, there was evidence only consistent with one strike and one impact (back of the head meeting concrete or other hard surface). There was no evidence that Zim was 'MMA grounded and pounded' with 25-30 strikes or had his head banged on the sidewalk a dozen times as he claimed. Anyone with basic sense knows that would result in far worse injuries for both Zimmy and Trayvon.

What it looks like happened now, as I've posited since the damn beginning, is that Zimmerman tried to physically detain Trayvon somewhere in the 'T' intersection area after a short verbal exchange. Trayvon tried to run towards Brandy Green's townhouse (trail of evidence leading from the intersection towards that direction and where the body was found backs this up). He hit Zim once in the face in self defense, trying to get him off, Zim (still holding onto Trayvon's clothing) fell on his back and hit the back of his head once on the sidewalk.

Both were on the ground and this point and Zim being dazed momentarily gave Trayvon the opportunity to initially get on top in an attempt to hold him down while he called out for someone to help him. Wrestling match ensued until Zim, with his extensive MMA training and experience, was able to get 'wrist control' and reverse positions- him on top, Trayvon on the bottom, and was able to unholster, aim, and fire one shot into Trayvon's heart.

He then patted him down, flipping him over to check his back pockets before someone came out with a flashlight and the cops arrived.
DonDadda59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #4409
Legend of Josh
Banned
 
Legend of Josh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alch|e|mist
Posts: 10,096
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013 Lakers
Yeah, Zimmerman lived there. Trayvon didn't, but he was staying at his dad's girlfriend's house, I believe.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Alright, so Zimmerman did live there, Trayvon didn't ... and that's why Zimmerman was following him around? I think it sound suspicious as all hell that a man in his 30's was out at night step-by-step creeping up on some young kid in the dark. Maybe it was Trayvon who was in fear of his life, and not Zimmerman.

I mean think about it. You're just a teenager, an older man is following behind you. You're just a kid, and I don't know if Trayvon was drunk, high, or whatever (I think if he was it would have already been all over the news and I only ask bc I remember people saying something to the effect of Trayvon being a regular pot smoker). Either way, doesn't really matter.

Alright so just think if you were Trayvon, you're walking home from the store, and you notice someone is following you. A) you're thinking "why is this person following me?" and B) is this individual drunk, high or even armed or dangerous. Perhaps Trayvon thought he was about to be robbed, mugged, etc. Maybe Trayvon was in fear for his life. Something just doesn't add up to me.

All I know is after watching CNN and HLN the Defense is currently winning. Something to the effect of a few of the head/lead detective are (for lack of a better word/description) siding with Zimmerman. Not praising GZ or bashing TM, but if their testimony had to benefit one or the other, it was clearly Zimmerman. I think one of the legal experts said the Prosecution at this point has an uphill battle to face.

They also said in most cases where a man's life/sentence is on the line just as this one, the man/woman on trial would more than likely take the stand in a last effort to convince the jury to side/feel sorry for the individual on trail. They said all Zimmerman has to do is put on the best possible demeanor day-to-day while he's in the courtroom. There's enough tape/videos of him answering questions that he doesn't need to take the stand and tell his side of the story.

I think in fairness and closure for Martin's family, Zimmerman should be forced to take the stand and not so-much be drilled and questioned by the Prosecution, but that he should take the stand and let the record show he told his side of the story right there in the courtroom.

Again, I apologize for not being as informed as I should be about many of the aspects of this case, but in terms of the actual jury itself, what's its makeup? How many men/women? What are their ages and races? I think at the end of the day, the law will be the law, but that won't be what determines Zimmerman's fate; it'll be the raw emotion of the jury.
Legend of Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:26 PM   #4410
MJ23forever
High School Varsity 6th Man
 
MJ23forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 758
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymone
Nanners meant to post this photo.



MJ23forever is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:53 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy